Shredding Those Photocopier Life Goals

with Mari Carmen Pizarro

This is an unedited transcript:


Hey, welcome. I’m so delighted to be here with my Carmen Pizarro. And she is like if I had to just like nutshell my experience of my guest today, it would be that she is the most grounded powerhouse I’ve ever met. She is all in the world of leadership, and works with teams, companies, leaders, cultivating and in a true sense of the word leadership. So, of course, she’s working with people who have a lot of sway who are decision makers, who were leading teams of people, and really teaching them the true meaning of leadership, boosting their confidence and cultivating a lot of women leaders, which we need more of, for sure. To See also an author, speaker, you may have seen her in TEDx. And we met years ago at a coaching training, and then had the pleasure of being trainers in that coaching program for a little while together. And it’s just been amazing to witness medicham and continue to just be so cutting edge with her work. And you know, I think when I think about the world, and I’ve talked about this on other episodes, for sure, but when I think about where we’re going next in the world, and what is going to benefit everyone is like really having true leaders and having more feminine leaders. So Mari Carmen, welcome. Good to have you here.



I am super excited to be here blue, because as you said, we met so many years ago, and we’ve seen each other in different facets, and then we find each other again in the trainer’s group. And then you know, when you invited me for the podcast, first of all, I’m like, Oh, my god, she’s having a podcast. Congratulations. And second, hell yes. And here I am. So really humbled that I was invited to be part of this beautiful platform. Thank you.



Thank you. And yeah, I mean, so much. I really. I was like, okay, when I think about like women and leadership, like you were top of mine, so I’m so glad you prayed some time to be here. I know you, you are in demand. Thank you.



This is like going back to my roots to your high school reunion. Right, like college reunion. It’s really super cool. Thank you.



Well, let me just start with like a big question, which is, how how is it that you came to have be working in the realm of leadership for the past? What 30 years? About? Yeah, yeah.



It’s a long it’s a long story. Because started very I started very young. I think I started developing web, the, there’s like three big pivots, I would say in my life. And one happened when I was moving from a co Ed school, like boys and girls to a private, all girls school, I was going to ninth grade, and I did my high school there. And I think that by the second week, in that school, I discovered I started to feel that I was I like to lead our speak or tutor or other students and or guide them somehow. So there was that, that that little bit of desire to move people from one place to another and be their guide. And the one thing that made that possible in ninth grade was the absence of boys. So there’s, there’s no Mean Girls in high school when they’re all girls. Well, at least that was my you know, there’s no competition for boys. There’s no boys. And I was too tall and too thin. I was my boys were not looking at me. And I was living in a country that this was not my country. And that opportunity was so pivotal in my life. The whole high school, I was in a leadership position. I ended up being the president of the class, Student Council. And that was the beginning of me. Because at that time, I needed approval. So I felt I was getting the approval that I needed, right. I had a lot of work to do, as you can imagine. I was in high school. And so that was the biggest, biggest moment of okay. This is something I like to do. And then throughout my career Working foreign crappy leaders. I mean, what a great, great gift from my guides, right? Here you go. When I say my guides, I am talking, you know, I feel like I am guided, I am guided, I have Angel guides that guide me every single day. So bear with me when I say my guide, there’s a bunch of people, I mean, in the spiritual realm that are guiding me in every decision every single day, so parenthesis closed. So I feel that those were gifts, right? I worked with a few leaders that were really bad leaders, egocentric or inconsiderate. And I started thinking like, Damn, I want to be first I want to do that job. And second, I don’t want to do it like that. So there’s a moment in my career where I was really growing up in corporate, I spent almost all my life 25 years in corporate America last years on my own. And that that was part of my training. Right. So that’s the middle. And the last part of the was the opportunity to really lead global teams within the companies that I worked for. So much, so that it equipped me to get out of corporate and I really prime moment in my life, and start doing my work from outside, which is a lot of fun. And also a lot of growth. Right. So now in the third part of my life, I have had the opportunity to work with crappy leaders that want to be better, and good leaders that want to be even better leaders. So that’s more or less my trajectory into leadership. It’s almost like when you ask somebody that can sing, and they’ve been singing since they were little. So to me, it’s something like that.



Yeah. So it sounds like it’s, it’s always been in your bone leadership. And then throughout your life, having different opportunities to see what is that like? And how can you engage in that developing it for yourself? And for other people? Yeah. Um, can you say can be a little bit more about your guide?



Yeah, of course. So I grew up Catholic, I grew up in part of my life was in Spain, part of my life was in Puerto Rico. And in the Catholic Church, we grow up with your guardian angel. And it is this part of the culture, right? And you, I mean, this myself, if you’re not Catholic, please bear with me. You know, you braid, you have your saint. And, and you pray to your saints, there’s a bunch of theories and stuff that we break, too. And I wouldn’t say I don’t, I don’t have a religion that I practice anymore. It’s been very a long, long time. However, I think that was the beginning of me understanding to or not, it doesn’t matter, right, understanding that there was a realm that is bigger than me. And that is there to help. And then there was a part of my life where I didn’t want anything to do with any of that. None of that mattered to me, actually. I’m like, like, no way. That’s what I have bad memories of the church. Not that anybody did anything bad to me was the reputation the lack of like they said, their spiritual, but I didn’t feel that we’re being spiritual. That was my experience, right? Keep in mind, well, I don’t know if people know but like in Spain, when I was growing up, if you divorced, or if you said you were not Catholic, you will go to jail. Jail. No, no cheating here. You say, I’m protest, and you have to leave the country or you go to jail. During the Franco dictatorship. You can you can separate you can get a divorce. People were living together for fear, but they really were divorced, right. I think I think what a well done, divorce is the best thing you can do for your life and for your health, you can do that. So I started like me, and a lot of people of my generation started going like, Ah, now we don’t want anything to do with anything that is spiritual or religious or anything like that. And as I actually was not when I started my coaching journey, which I was stealing corporate, I kept my job for many years while I was doing this thing on the side, that I was first introduced to meditation and meditation. I know it’s not spiritual. Lemon is not religion, religious or anything like that. But it was really establishing a strong meditation practice that opened my third eye to receive things I didn’t even know were there. And it’s a combination of my guardian angel, which by the way, this morning, I had to, you know, had a conversation with him. And I believe that there are spirits around us that are here to guide us. I believe that I I believe that God lives inside of me. And I consult that my higher self, my higher self, all that I like, every day, I have a practice now that every day guides every decision I make. And that’s what I called, I call my guides. So sometimes I call my Ark angels, which are gonna get me into action. Sometimes I call the Ministry of angels if I mean, magic happens when I reach out to these, that you have it too, right? We all have all of these amazing spiritual guidance and help. Is there waiting to be called?



Yeah, yeah. Wow. So amazing. So I just within that, I heard that a few things, right, where you really went, you have this foundational piece, first of all this, like, however, was delivered in a way that’s an alternative for your life. But But this idea that there’s this larger spiritual connection that you have, that you have access to directly as a resource that you can have you learned that young in life, and then kind of evolved like, the religion around us and really worked for you. And in like, some really intense ways. And so you had to really create a path of your own outside of like the law. Yes. And then kind of finding your way back home. action? Wow. Yeah. Beautiful. And it sort of, as you’re describing it, it struck me too, that it kind of mimics the, the journey of leadership, right, so you’re really well connected early on to, like, yeah, this is for me, like, I want to lead the charge, people will follow me like, let’s do it, let’s get the thing done. Together, you know, and, and then, and then going into the workplace, you’re right. And being like, Oh, this is, this really doesn’t work. For me like this isn’t? This is not producing health for me. For those crappy leaders, right?



Let me tell you, I was a crappy leader at the beginning to given people for the first time that I was in charge of, I made a lot of mistakes, and I guess it’s part of the gross, right?



For sure. So we’ve been we’ve been tossing around the word leadership, and like, you know, good leadership and bad leadership. So what do you what, what makes for quality leadership? What are some of the elements?



You know, it’s like, when I think, and I am a leader in, let’s go to the parallel of a singer, a singer, right person that sings they have to go, the better they get, the more coaching they have, right? The more time they have to practice, the more the more they mess up any athlete, anybody that is growing in a field. So this is like my athletic performance is just in leadership. And I am a work in progress, I do want to say that I am very proud of being a work in progress, I don’t want to minimize everything that I’ve learned, I want to really put their eye on the fact that you never arrive, you continue to evolve. So when I think about a good leader, and what I’ve seen, I do a lot of research, I have a nerdy side of me and our data and numbers and research is very sexy for me. So I do a lot of research, and I participated in global research. You know, I’m curious, what are the qualities that our leader has to have? And which ones of those qualities are more female or male? Or, you know, how can we create the perfect leader if we had the opportunity to do that? And and there are qualities that companies have no companies that research has identify that when a person do them over and over and over and over again, that companies that they’re leading, perform better? and 100% of the qualities have to do with the way you treat your employees? None of the qualities have to do with skill set like technical skill set. None. This is years of global research, you can Google it, there is when you go to the top leaders is never Oh my god. Yeah, some of them are they happen to be a great tech person or a great but you can take that out, you can put somebody that doesn’t know anything about a business or an organization or a country. And if the person is a good leader, it the other qualities are going to be related to the way he or she relates to people. So for example, the way he or she makes decisions. I understand that that sometimes you have to make decisions by your own, depending on the situation, maybe an emergency situation, and sometimes you have to consult the ability to give feedback and receive feedback. It’s all related to, I mean, there’s so many theories, right, like servant leadership. And and I don’t know, there’s a lot of theories. But when I got deeper, and I’ve been doing this for years, I really found the same thing. So you open for feedback and you confront people in a positive way, can you get the best out of them. And it has to do a lot with understanding other people’s needs. One thing that I learned as a leader, if I one thing, every time I find myself or one of my clients say, saying, Oh, my God, I told I don’t lose 100 times to do the work this way. And she’s just still not doing it. She’s lazy, and we start labeling people, that’s just like going to the dark side. Or, if it was me, I would. So I have a video actually on. I don’t like I’m gonna go against the golden rule, treat everyone the way they like, do you like to be treated? When I turn out? Like, no, no, you have to treat others the way they like to be treated. And they’ve got they’ll go with your places. So that’s one of the biggest, biggest things that I think we all have opportunity for improvement even in our families got when I work with clients, and first thing I asked is like, are you you know, Do you have children? What what’s your community? Like? What are you are also a leader at home? And certainly women are way more leaders than men at home. Right. So there’s a trend there. So I could be working with a mom, that’s a See I usually don’t moms or not, you know, usually if it’s non working mom, they would not, like Follow me. But if they were, it’s like, don’t wait is the same thing? How are you treating the people that you’re leading at home because you’re the CEO of your home? So this this leadership, when I talk about leadership, people sometimes think about all big corporations, I just come from big corporations. So I’m attracted to that. And they’re attracted to me, but in reality, all of these years dissecting what it is what it what does it take to be a good leader? Understanding the other person’s needs, so that you can tell them? Okay, here’s where we’re going being clear, make sure that you agree with that, if you don’t agree, then I have some work to do. It’s not telling you here you go. Or it’s not the military. Right? The military is easy. I mean, I have a lot of respect for that is really, all my my, I have a whole side of the family, my ex husband, they’re all military. And I have a lot of respect. And it’s easier just to give your orders and you follow them no questions asked. Great. Love it, it works. Because you It worked in the military, but that’s not life.


I think that’s, I think that has been my biggest learning it really, there is not a big secret of leadership. And of course, you have to have the confidence to take it because sometimes it you’re gonna mess up. And sometimes people are waiting for you to myself as the leader. And that’s okay. Yeah.



Yeah, I love that it really reminds me of, you know, where I first heard this, but about, just because you’re good at a thing doesn’t mean you’re good at teaching it. So a lot of times people get into leadership position, because they’re good at the work. Yes, they’re not really good at managing.


And also in corporations, you get rewarded up to a certain point for the doing the for being highly technical, highly skilled at the job, right. So if you think about any position, you grow any any position engineering, a doctor, it doesn’t matter, you start like being very good at what you do. And then there’s the then you get promoted. And all of a sudden, you have to delegate everything that you love and adore doing and do things that are new to you. Nobody taught you and you’re like, oh, now what? Right? And that’s one of the things of being a good leader, it was also understanding when to say no to that position, because there’s a lot of Allure. And really, it’s hard as shit, right? Especially doing the thing, loving the thing, stay in a technical career. And it happens a lot with entrepreneurs. I don’t I don’t I’ve had a hard time you know, being a leader in this space at a been a leader in in corporate is also easier than being a leader outside of corporate. Why am I leading? You know, think about it. Yeah, my team of five you know, as coaches and intrapreneurs, we have to lead masses to paint whatever they want, whatever it is that we’re leading them to do there as well.



What have you if Watson your your role as leader in various ways what, what feels like have been some of the biggest challenges or obstacles or missteps with that.



So the biggest challenge when I was a former leader, meaning that I was that I had the title, right, whether it’s in my company, I’m the founder of the company, or whether it was when I was in corporate, because they happen twice, both times, is wanting to the biggest challenging thing has been separating myself from the role of the door, to have the role of the leader and lead other people to do the doing, the way they like to do the doing. So that my company or my organization or my department or my house, it doesn’t matter my community can move forward, let in allowing them to do the doing the way they want to do the Dwayne is super hard for me, because I might have a very dominant personality that I wanted done my way, because I did it that way. I you know, you’ve heard it



before, you know, 20 years.



The way I’ve done it for the last five years it works and insist on like, dude, you have to set the strategy, your job, leadership is more, you know, big picture there. And then you have the the person or the group of people. So that has been the most challenging and it is because of my personality, right of wanting to do everything myself or I would prefer I just don’t have the time. In fact, I’m not gonna lie here. Oh, yeah, I’m super good at delegating them. Now I have to explain I think about the person what she likes, let me see what how do I say this so that I, but however, that has given me the biggest bang for my buck, taking that time to understand. I’ve an amazing, you know, executive admin, she works very different than me, all those hours of work, you know, what, they she adores me, she’s not gonna leave me, she adores me. And she knows I’ve suffered. So that is very challenging. And, you know, it’s the one thing that has kept me on track is been very clear. And sometimes I have to ask myself this question, once, twice, three times a week. Where is it that I’m going, why am I here? When, what’s my purpose, and I, and I, I believe I don’t find my purpose. I define my purpose. And like I am, this is going to be my purpose, I write it down. My purpose is I define I’m not waiting to find my purpose is not lost anywhere. I define it. And then sometimes I have to do that exercise several times a month, and I’m okay with that. Because we fought in the day to day, you know, how busy this life can get. And I have four children, three grandchildren, my family’s in Spain, so I live in the US. You know, I couldn’t, I could, in two seconds, I could get overwhelmed. But I when I that’s when I call my guides in the morning, I do my meditation. It’s like a reminder, right? What What is my mission today? Even What is my purpose to them? What is the purpose of this week? When in the next three months, in terms of spiritual, right, the to do comes later? Those moments that I take I have a practice in the morning, that’s all heart and soul.



questions so much and, and the idea of defining your purpose now. Like waiting around for it. And I can imagine tuning into that gives you that perspective, especially that you need to be a good leader. Yes.



Yeah. So, so much, much of what you just shared. I just, yeah, I think there’s a lot of listeners, probably who are entrepreneurs, like you said, you know, whatever world you’re in. So imagine Yeah, that’s you know, that’s a that’s a real struggle on decision to make is how much are we willing to delegate and develop leadership skills? versus or whatever our craft is, you know, exactly.



And, you know, it’s liberating. I have coached more than three CEOs I Top, Top person, doing one man that the result of the goal actually didn’t finish. I usually sell like a one year coaching package for corporations. We didn’t even finish the bag as a six, seven months into the baggage. They resigned their job as a result of working with me. And the first time on my God, we cried was a woman. A former colleague, and friend, our friend, but friendly, cried, oh my god, we cried for hours on the phone like eating our tears. I’m like, first of all, I’m losing a freaking gigantic contract with her money, our coaching her whole team, like them. And in the other hand, it was her going, like I’m dying here. My soul is that and as a result of the coaching process of finding that leadership, she’s like, it’s not here. Right and and she took a break. She’s from China. So relationship with parents is very important. All she was doing was so that she could take care of her parents one day. Her parents are old. And what she did is we took a look at her finances, I’m like, dude, you can take a year off? What the hell are you doing? What is the wrong? What are you leading on To where? Because she never took the time to say what is my mission? What is my purpose this week, or even this year? As far as changes, right? When I had little children, my purpose was different. And work was not number one. Right. And then my purpose as a mom is different now than when they were little different. I have big conversations with my children are adults. So I’m okay with a purpose changing and in that case, in in the same exact situation happened with the other two, it gets to a point where we haven’t were in the rat race happens to entrepreneurs all the time happens to beautiful coaches, you probably have seen them beautiful, way better than me that crash and burn. Oh, with this attachment to whatever it is other artists out there that are getting, you know, I’ve been there myself, you do probably see me there with these with these anx. And you can’t lead like that. So my friend is one example. She, we sign it was really painful. took a year off with her parents, her parents ended up moving to the US they leave with her. And all of a sudden she realized how frail they are where there was no waiting it, you know, but they don’t have to be in a home. They will never I mean, culturally speaking, they will not be in a home. But they live with her and her husband and their dogs and she’s happy and now she’s choosing. Okay, she’s now making a million dollars per year, who who cares? She’s happy. She’s gained weight. She’s super skinny, she actually looked like 10 years older. Was she leading now? Well, she’s leading the clients that she chose. And she’s leaving her family life. She’s leaving her father, her mom, you know, towards the end of their lives. And she’s a really, really happy person.



That’s a really powerful story that, you know, defining your own purpose defining what success means. exactly who you know, which is what I’m so interested in here. This podcast is like, What? How are we defining that success? And often, it’s not our own true definition. If we tune in if we listen to our guys, however, we define that you know, God’s voice it’s usually not the thing that we thought right the outside. Well, this is the measure of success, right? A million dollars or, you know, and sometimes that exactly is Yeah, no,



if it is it is Hey, more to you. 10 million, bring it if it is, but call that photocopier goals. Like it’s almost like, okay, I go like photocopier, we make a photocopy of the goals that we that we see online or that we think it’s the job is I made it I’m CEO, well, she made it to want to be in second crying on every freaking call. I have this woman so smart and powerful and dedicated and loved the company crying when you make one. You’re brave. Right, but she had a bunch of photocopier you know, senior director by 30 vice president by 40 she never thought he was gonna be CEO by 42 side by 50 CEO by by 42 you know that the typical Wall Street you know, x million of dollars in the bank, children or children whatever the house here, they’ll they help Bob know what photocopier she was living photocopier life. She’s still who she is. He’s actually at her best and the other two as well. I still, you know, I get the most beautiful messages in Facebook. They like everything I bought years ago, but there’s the connection that is created. And to me that’s true leadership, right. I was able to lead them to what they needed and wanted that they didn’t even know because we’re like, crowd You know, there’s our vision is cloudy, sometimes with a photocopier goals like I call them.



What What do you think help you step out of photocopier goals, because I imagine you probably have those for a while yourself. Oh my god. Of course,



that’s that’s part of a lot of what I teach and say, it’s because I was there too. Right? So what was your question? What



were my fault? Yeah. Tell me about your photocopier goals and then how you put them down, like how you shredded them. So they weren’t you know, they



took kids the nice cars, the suburban big houses, too. But I mean, I feel nasty saying that not nasty. Not I don’t know, I don’t, I feel weird is like ill you know, the good job. And, and I’m not gonna say I was not unhappy. But it was not, at the point of this woman like crying every week. Never. I never got to that point. And it was so liberating to say, to shred them. I know. I love the analogy. I never used that word about the photocopier. I mean, we’re talking about paper. Yeah, let’s try them. Yeah, so when I started putting them in the shredding, people thought I was crazy. People thought I was absolutely out of control crazy that I was going to use all my savings and I did a lot. I didn’t lose them. They gave me a live aggregation. You know, and, and then rebuilding alive. I still have this suburban house, and I love it. And it’s not because it’s what you should, or what their society expects, and we’re selling it and we’re moving to our ranch. And I’m going to start doing horse therapy, you know, it’s like, whatever. different stages of my life. My husband and I have given ourselves the freedom from the photocopier goals and be okay with that. And let me tell you, we have had friends when we decided to we bought a ranch in Austin, Texas. I live in Philadelphia, so our life is Philadelphia, New York extreme, you know, pretty nice. And we were like, Why in the world? Would you move to Texas? We’re like, oh, man, have you been it’s just so cool land and we bought this 35 acres and we’re gonna have horses and people are like, I have to take care of their horses and their shares literally. And you’re like, yeah, and you know, and yeah, and we’re gonna be writing books and and my, my husband wants to teach in school in college make a fair for what he makes now unless we’re okay. It’s okay. It’s good. And it’s far from the photocopier goals right of people we’re both entering our second half of 50 so I’m going to be 56 is going to be 57 so there’s some expectations that are totally the odd Valley for the gabhail goals and if they don’t make sense for us what it has taken a lot of it was scary to shred them I do want to say I people look at me and say well, it’s easy for you I’m like what do you mean you know, it’s easy for me



you know 510 years easy trading and not really shredding wait no I was kidding. Take me back since you’ve rubbish shredded shred them and then tried to pull something from each other



for years for a few years, right I’ve been in that and and it goes back to the leadership lessons all the leadership lessons, how am I leading myself into the life I want as I grow into my 60s, right? I lead in my family How am I leading my community? What am I going to how am I going to lead my ranch? Things of that nature? I continue to use the same lessons I teach I guess by now.



Yeah, that is how it works right like we teach what we need to learn them. And I love it sounds like a key ingredient here has been self inquiry. Right like on the regular really checking in? Yeah, what what’s right for me now what is the right next thing? What’s the purpose? Today? Yeah, well, powerful, just what a few questions can do. And I also heard another piece might be the you know, the quote, we began with this this or mantra that you’ve had for a long time around, just do it. Just do it. Can you say a little bit about that? And how like what doors that have opened for you.



So every time that embraced embrace the juice, just do it even before. Like I know it was an I guess long years ago. But I used that really little I use a little times. I mean, sorry, seldomly. I use a lot more now. But every time I used, just do it, whether it was telling the truth to somebody that my parents when I was young, we just do it, you know, rip the bandage, sort of just do it, or signing up for a marathon or whatever, whether it was physical or something more emotional. They just were always helped me move into action. And then when I left corporate, and I was on my own, I didn’t just do it. I forgot. And I always, I did a lot of overthinking. I did a lot of goals in paper, a lot of papers of goals and project plans of things that were not happening because I was really busy creating things and creating it, I had to have the perfect curriculum and the web page and a lot of years. I mean, I’d made some money. But I left a job and I had a responsibility to my family, I left my job with a promise that I’m going to replace that salary nobody here is going to, we’re not losing anything. On the contrary, we’re going to gain and maybe needed to be like that. But it took me about two years to start say to go in going back to my guidance. And my just do it mentality where if the weather is from doing a proposal or sharing my prices, or calling somebody that I haven’t spoken with a long time with maybe the intention I maybe they need me now, right? But I had to separate all of that all of that neediness. When I started just doing it, I realized that all I had to do was just do it in an essence of service. Just to add to serve all those years to add to to help this person just to add to have fun. Just to add once I started the batching all the expectation and all that long term goal processing that I was doing, I still do goals. I love goals. Don’t get me wrong, but I was like really overthinking it and overwhelmed. You know, you can go in so many directions. And you’re I mean, it is the most difficult thing I’ve ever done in my whole life. Be an entrepreneur. Yeah. Yeah, running a business requires a lot of strength. Yeah. And engineering really has has kept me in the game just to make money one day, one more day, just do it. Does that answer your question?



Yeah. Does It Really? You know, and I, it reminds me Actually, I did an episode with Elijah Selby, who you know, as well. And we were talking about the feminine and masculine peace, and how I just, I really heard in what you shared that. You know, she mentioned it like that. And we can think about feminine and masculine in lots of different ways. There’s a whole other discussion, but this idea of leading with the feminine. And then the masculine is there to support Listen, put into action. What’s let you know, so I hear so much of that and what you’re sharing in terms of, okay, really being like having that inquiry. Getting with your guys being clear on what, what really is the past for you right now? Not so much like, they might look really different in five years, right? Like five years ago, I would guess you probably didn’t think you’d want to run a ranch in Austin, or something like that. So not getting too caught up in like, what does that mean? What does that mean? But like, really? Like, what’s the purpose in front of me? What’s this? Yes, then that that real bringing in that masculine energy of like, and just do it? Yes. And I actually heard like, just trust it.



Yes. And whatever happens is what needs to happen. But again, I’m guided I feel I’m cheating. Because if I’ve done like this year, I’ve put out a few I put out a proposal the other day to a woman and she doesn’t want to talk to me anymore. I mean, she would be aware be like three or four strategy sessions where I do a little bit of coaching, getting to know her, she’s following me, she loves me. She went to a talk. I did love that. Last one program came to the program, finish and now she wants one on one coaching not talking. I know what it is she didn’t expect the fee. They not expect the fee. And I’m like, all right, she and now she doesn’t want to talk to me anymore. And if he was happy, and I’m like, I just did it. Let me take a look at the fee and look, I’m like she’s not gonna expect this just to trust the process. And because I’m guided And I trust that and I have faith that I’m guided that guidance there her not even saying no to me, that’s not my ideal client. That is not my ideal client, a woman in a senior leadership position that because she didn’t like what she said, Whatever I wrote in that proposal, there’s something that she didn’t like, obviously, maybe it wasn’t a fee, whatever it was. She’s not even saying, You know what, I don’t not now, or I did not like this because this is what I teach my ladies right? formularies this just say like it is so that the person understands. Why not? or Why yes, or why maybe. And she’s not even doing that in the position that she has for the company as she works. On my, Ah, that’s just not my area clients on what I’m learning, and then I look back for 10 minutes. I don’t dwell on things. Okay. Did I have any red flags? Yes. was doing an exercise on fear one day, and she was rolling her eyes at me rolling her eyes. No, because I talked about love and fear and shit like that in corporate, I have men talking that way. If you don’t want to talk that way. Perfect. I’m not a coach. So that’s when you know, I’m you know, everyone has access to this guidance that I have. I just, it really is a very conscious decision that was guided to prepare the proposal. She’s not speaking to me. Thank you, God. She was not my idea. Yeah. to hire to have your own ideal client.



Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Really good. But it’s not always clear. Yeah, exactly. When we really trust that when we’re clear within ourselves, and we know what’s true for our next great purpose. Yeah, taking action on it always lead to the outcome.



Isn’t that easier? When we think like that? I Oh, wow, she was not my ideal client. Let me look back. Oh, yeah. There’s like 10 red flags, that sometimes as coaches or even leaders, we don’t see because she had other things that I liked. But I’m good. I’m safe. And if she comes back, the doors open, and we will have a candid and open conversation. But yeah, it is guidance that just do it. And what’s the worst that can happen? Nothing. Yeah.



Well, I I’ve always admired I have this, this image of you. I think at some point, when I learned more about the work that you were doing, that you’re like, bringing me like sneaking all this like magic dust into the corporate world. Think of you. That’s my perspective. But, um, but I am curious. I know you do some programs, specifically. And you’ve mentioned clients, who are women. And I know you specifically do work with women leaders, and developing cultivating women’s leadership. Could you say a little bit about that and like how why you do that is so important to have its own set of program.



So I work with men and women and I work with teams that have men and women and I love men don’t get me wrong, and I think they have I believe that they have a crucial role in our lives in corporate outside of corporate everywhere. Right. And, and I also through the research that I’ve participated in the past, you know, five years, I’ve also been able to identify, well, we all know that the world is run by men. That’s right, disproportionate, okay, so I’m not good. They’re not doing a bad job. I mean, look where we are. And it’s all run by men. Every time I go into a boardroom, there’s either one woman or zero woman, I’m the only woman in the room that is very, very, very common. So even in industries that are female dominated, like the school systems, there’s more teachers than that are female. And when you go to the top echelon of the education system, the superintendent and the principles is more men than women and how is that possible if there are more women below? So that’s the first realization right okay, there are women are a bunch of Women Engineers go into engineering school to law school. So you go to a firm and I’m with a partners and they’re all male, and maybe one woman out of 12 and then the middle level is all women are majority women. I’m like, okay, something’s freaking broken. Are we dumb? Are we all leave into her baby? So all started with me asking myself, are we all live in the corporate world to be coaches on our babies? Is that because if that’s the case, then I’m okay. And I’m like, Alright, let me partner with a research company. I don’t have the resources to do that research, but I can partner I partner with is the McKinsey Global Institute. And the first thing is that now We’re not leaving the corporate world to have babies or be coaches like I did. A lot of women want the higher level positions, but they’re not getting them, or we are being discriminated and sexually harassed. Now we’re not. But there is a, there is an area there that is unknown first, and I’m going to attribute this 100% to women. We’re not speaking up embolus that this is the result of a three year global study, where they’re studying specifically law firms around the world, how does it take to be partner, and time after time after time when the younger guy is promoted? Or the guy that has less experienced than the woman or is not as good as a performer? Lower performance? How do you? Is it discrimination? In what way? No, it’s ignorance, or it’s also it’s ignorance, bear with the fact that men are trained, not all of them, but in general, to say what they want early on. So they go to the firm, they’re a baby, you know, first year in the firm, they’re like, I want to make a partner and the woman is like, No, you have to prove yourself first. And she’s a workaholic, and she’s not having babies until she’s 40. And then she can and then she’s all stressed out. And her relationships are suffering. In the meantime, he’s like, I want to be partner and he by you know, and he makes it to partner because he said he wanted to be a partner. That was one one result, there’s many studies around that what is happening, we’re not leaving to have babies. Were not speaking up. And then so I have this information, I started having more women clients, I probably law of attraction, right? I’m in, like, looking for the possibilities. And all of a sudden, I started getting clients that were women. But the one pain, the coaching was a guy that I see, as a male, he’s sending me he stopped female, to coach I’m like, all right, still weird. Then I participated in another global study with the same company. And they, we were able to identify that the best performing companies had the leadership, the leadership skills that we talked at the beginning of that conversation, and guess who was kicking some serious ass women. I mean, I was like, blown away. By that on the same circumstances, if the company was run by a woman that had all the qualities, not i’m not saying, you know, any woman has the leadership qualities that are all about the other it that’s it. I mean, they’re nine, but there is I can talk about them, but they’re all about the other. None of them is about you. And we do a better job at that. Blue, we do a better job at that. There’s data that proves that. And I told you that that means sexism, like sexist things happening here.



And that’s when I really, really find my purpose. I said, I want to be the person that teaches corporations how to close the gender gap so that they can have a better financial outcome in the end. But they can be more innovative. So they can, here’s the data. And companies are open for that. There’s not that I only coach women, but I do feel really poor. I’m a woman and I have a bias for women. And when I represented we want the jobs, and we’re not taking so I use this information more to sell it to the women. All I hear is like well, maybe I didn’t get the promotion because I’m a woman. Maybe you know, maybe it wasn’t heard in the meeting because I’m a woman. No, there’s freaking strategies to be heard in meetings. And guys are using them and we’re not. Now you need to say that you want the promotion before you’re ready. Oh, well, that. General digging amen to that more than men because we DNA we want to nurture. And let me tell you, one of the nine leadership qualities is nurturing. It’s a leadership quality that has been accepted, global scale. I’m talking, the United Nations has that in their sustainability goals. nurturing. We were born to be nurturers. So there’s some things that we’ll have to learn, but there’s no reason for women to shy away from this position, or from wanting more from wanting to grow on their own terms, not because it’s a photocopier goal.



Yeah, yeah. Totally. I love that. I think. Yeah, there I really see that just I don’t, I don’t have the data. But as you’re saying, The data shows, that feels really true, you know, just live in living in life and that men tend to, like the traits that are cultivated in men is Yeah, just speaking up to taking actions to our goals, you know, like, just I’ll figure it out on the way you know, is like, just there’s access to that thing more readily. And women were those nurturing qualities are more cultivated in us. And I think I think you’re right. It’s like we have we have all those things within us. We all have masculine and feminine qualities. So. So what I hear you saying is really it’s more about cultivating the qualities that will get us in the door. Because then once we’re in the door, we’re really freaking good at it. We are. Yeah, no inspiring. Oh, my goodness. Well, I would love to continue, we’ll record a little bonus episode. While we’re here, too. But I’m curious if there’s anything else you want to just as we come to completion for this episode, anything else you you wish for people listening to know, mostly women.



But, ladies, so first, it’s very important for me when I speak in, you know, in places where I know there’s people listening, ladies, is not what I’m not saying you have to be a leader, you have to be at the top. Because there’s a lot to say. And we need people at all levels, we need a heart there, there is hierarchy at the house or your house or your neighborhood. So with a hierarchy. And that’s okay, I have no problem with that. Now, if you want to really understand how to move a group of people from point A to point B, whether you’re in our organization, or running your own business, you must understand what are the qualities? And what are the strategies that we need to own no fear and just do it?



As my Yeah. Like, drop? Yeah. Yeah, well, and where we’ll have some links on our page at the path of her own calm, but where can people find you?



Well, this is why I’m very active in social media. But the easiest ways in my website is my name Marie Carmen I’m also growing, playing on Instagram a lot. So if you want to play with me on Instagram, is at Marie Carmen International. That’s my handle. And I’m having a lot of fun there as well.



Well, thank you so much for your comment. And dear listener, for tuning in. So nice. Leaving applause for my sound. Yeah. And I would love to, you know, I love to have just like a little snippet, to where we can just dial in maybe on one topic that maybe we didn’t get to where you want to go a little more in depth on your need. And I’m just gonna get a little bit of water Actually, yeah, go for it. So great and inspiring. This was fun to learn more about you. And I just love your energy. Thank you for doing this. Thank you. So, you know, we have like, you.



You asked before you’re very clear, and your instructions, I’m all yours. You tell me what you need? And what do we want to accomplish? And we’ll do it.



I’m actually not sure. It was such a complete, there was so much confusion there.


So the, the I’m just wasting your little I’m standing. So what do you use? What is your plan for the 1015 minute thing that you want to do? What what are you going to use that for?



So I’m with everyone like while we’re already here, I like to record one more little episode. That is just to catch people who are like, I only have 10 minutes, you know? And then it also because just from what I understand, it’s like it’s better if every week there’s a new episode, and I’m like, I don’t want to keep that pace up. So, so it’s also a little bit of a cheat because it’s like well, we released the main episode and then the bonus comes out the next week. So it’s also like that for two weeks. I’m talking about you and then a conversation as well. So


this is not like an introduction or it’s just like dive in.



Yeah, I mean, I might just say like who you are and reference you know, you want to know more about her than Make sure you catch the full episode. But yeah, the assumption is that people have listened to the episode, here’s a little bonus. Or if you catch the bonus, then we’re like, go back there for



both either or. Okay. Yeah. So I can teach something, if you want is that the idea to teach something’s work? So we’re one of the things I find women struggle with the most more than men is with having their voice be heard. And there’s five reasons why the voice is not heard. If you want, we can, that’s probably, I mean, that’s, I got that in five days, or in five minutes. You know, perfect. One of the reasons could have hours of training, but I can just say the five, just to create some awareness and who knows if you like, and maybe we can do more with that. Yeah.



Yeah. Oh, I love that. I love that. And then I’ll ask you again, you know, where people can find you. You know, get more about those five things. Yeah, cool. Okay. All right. And we are back a little more time with Maria Carmen. And so delighted, and we kind of referenced, we’ve been talking about leadership and reference the ways that women are not accessing the kinds of leadership positions that not only should they be, but they would be really stellar at, and everyone would benefit from them being in this position. So we kind of alluded to that. And this is something that Mike Harmon is like, I mean, this is what she’s teaching, she’s coaching. And she’s offered to share some insight around that help women pick up more. So I’m really curious to get a little teaching here from Mark Harmon. Great,



thank you blue, I’m so excited to be here in this in this final section. So the thing that I encountered the most is women feeling that they’re not being heard. So and this happens at the same rate, in corporate and outside of corporate, you know, I have women entrepreneurs that go to meetings, and they’re like, you know, what I felt I felt I wasn’t heard. So have you ever been, think about a time where you had a great idea, or you were presenting something, or even if it wasn’t fully baked, you’re presenting something you, you get prepared to share this idea. And this can be a family vacation idea with your family, a different direction for your company, to the Board of Directors, or a new course that you want to add to your repertoire, or you want to pitch it to your husband, whatever, it doesn’t matter. So we are prepared. We’re excited. And we do our presentation. And it has all the details that we go than it has love and as a beautiful PowerPoint. And we finish. And we hear, Matt? No, oh, I’ve been there. I’ve been there corporate level, right? I think like, yeah, or, okay, thank you Next, or you say anybody has any questions, and nobody has questions, and they are looking at their clock or they’re still looking at their phone. So what happens there? What happens in our, you know, you said Ouch, that’s what happens is Ouch. And more of women do this more often than men. That’s why greater progress specifically for women. It’s that we start thinking that, Oh, well, maybe it’s because I’m a woman or oh shit i just did this presentation is people don’t care. Oh my god, there’s absolutely no respect for women in this organization. And go on. And you know, you can go on with excuses with stories that you create are these people are all bunch of losers, whatever it is, is usually negative. Even if you’re thinking I did a great job a bunch of losers negative, those two energies are gonna cancel each other. And in the end, it’s going to be negative. So we go into this thing, we sat the sit down over the dinner table, we leave the table, or like, depress. And what I want you to know is that there are when you want to persuade somebody, there’s five challenges that you’re going to face and most likely you’re going to face the five. Let me tell you which ones they are. The first one is they don’t think it’s a good idea. The first challenge any one persuading any person, it could be my five year old grandson, 919 year old boy to get the trash out of a house or a board of directors of a multinational company. If they don’t say anything. It’s not because they’re lazy, not because they’re stupid. It’s not because you’re a woman. Because they don’t think it’s a good idea. It’s not about you. Once we separate ourselves from that it’s about me saying it’s not about you. They don’t think it’s a good idea. Now you my girl, you have a job. to do. And it’s first of all, oh shit, they thought it was not a good idea. That’s all they are. It’s information. It’s beautiful information. Because now, once you identify is not a good idea, you can start a dialogue. You can ask him a question. Okay, so I see that nobody thought it was a good idea. What do you think about doing it a different way? Do you have another way of doing this? How do you think we do it, um, you should be prepared for with Plan B and Plan C, when you go to instead of doing an European tour, do you want to go to the Caribbean, right? Open the conversation for opposing ideas, and most people shy away from that, doubt your head and keep walking out of? That’s the first challenge. And in the first challenge, if they don’t think it’s a good idea, it is your job to sell the benefits of your idea. So let’s take healthy eating. That’s super easy. You’re selling healthy eating to a family. nobody’s interested in you did a beautiful presentation with people, where’s the burger or whatever. And they just don’t think it’s a good idea to change their eating habits. So it is your job to little by little. Tell them the benefits of healthy eating. Now healthy eating is easy, because most people do agree that eating healthier is better for them. It’s going to be very weird to find somebody that does not believe in that. So that takes us to the second challenge. Do your presentation. They think it’s a good idea. Healthy Eating Yeah. Sugar. Yeah. Great idea. You’re like, yes. The next thing we’re gonna do is that we’re going to change the whole menu. And everybody’s like, huh, yeah, not that excited. But yeah, you get a yes, you leave the area, two to three weeks later, or a month later, or maybe the next day, everybody’s bad to McDonald’s


is the second challenge is that when they thought about it, that it’s a good idea. But they thought about it. And they started asking people around them. So this is called social. They look for social validation. Teenagers, they go back to school, they were all pumped up, they go back to school, they’re like, Oh, my God, all my friends are going to McDonald’s after like, I’m not going to be left out. This is a real thing. And it happens at all levels, from children to high level. We look companies I present ideas to companies, I think it’s a good idea. And then nothing’s happening. I’m like, What is happening? Oh, shit. Nobody else is doing it. It’s called social factors. And it’s a it’s this is all inside of an arm of Social Sciences. All right. So that’s the second one. nobody’s doing it. And your job is to find people that are doing it, find a support group find people find proof that no, let me tell you all the teenagers that are eating healthy, you know, continue with the same. Let me tell you about this other group. Take your kids to a restaurant where there are kids eating the same thing. These are I’m just taking this off the car fast with buddies. Okay, so now you killed the social factors. Opposition. Right? They’re like, you know, Mom, you’re right. Everybody’s eating right? There’s more people eating healthy now. Next day, they’re still not doing it. And this happens, this has happened to me with coaching clients, they’re like, yeah, then nobody’s doing that. And then I’m like, No, everybody’s doing I’ll do this group is doing I’m like, yeah, and then still not doing the behavior. So the third challenge is that it’s this very common, that people’s perceived ability is low, meaning that they don’t believe they can do it. And they don’t know how to do it. Sometimes they don’t even know that they don’t know how to do it healthier. And I love that example. Because it sounds easy. And you know, this blu ray, we’ve been in this business for a long time. Now, if you don’t know, I mean, I used to do a little bit of personal training and health coaching. On the side when I was incorporated. People are like, What do I do? Where do I go? I’m like, just go buy vegetables that I What do I do with them? You can have them sold on your idea and it has nothing to do with them being lazy or disrespecting you and that’s where we go most people go there. You know? They say they’re lying to me. The responsible they don’t hold their promises. No, stop, stop, stop.



I love what you’re saying so far. Just like it like it removes it. Like we’re not in the center of it. Right? It has its own thing. And so yeah, what are what are the obstacles to like that being accepted or being received and outside of ourselves because we are, you know, I think as women in particular men my experiences too, but as women I definitely know the experience of working coaching with women is like That we really there are things that we tie to our value that. Yeah, right? Nothing.



You’re the love that you’re bringing that back to coaching because how many times has happened to me where I’m like, Oh my god, am I most we’re really I’m a failure as a coach now maybe they just really, really do. And I’ve noticed coaching is not a no to you or like, lessens your value, just maybe they don’t think it’s a good idea to offer that. Yeah, maybe they’re like, that’s not a good idea, or I can’t do that. Nobody else is doing it. But they are the humans we go, we want to look for, you know, anything that is new that a leader has to do if you’re persuading somebody to do something different. It means change for them. Yeah, right. Otherwise, there’s no persuasion needed if they’re already doing it. Which means all of the activation of less be safe. Stay here. I got a call. And we can right. Can we just talk about this for five for a whole week? Oh, like, a long time? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So that’s them. Third? challenge. And there’s one more that even when you take your time to teach somebody how to do it, teach somebody how to cook healthy, and what to buy. And it’s all good. They think so like they are now they know other people are doing it too. And now they you discovered because you need to have the remember, like, oh, maybe they don’t think they can do it. You have the conversations, maybe it’s a whole month of conversations. And now it’s all good. Yeah, there might be a force challenge. Sometimes that’s enough. But sometimes there’s more, more more. And it’s called converting intentions into action. Which means it happens a lot with clients, your client has, it’s all you did all the work, it’s all done. Your client has the best intention, your family, your teenager, your board of directors doesn’t matter. They have the best intention to implement what you just saw, then it might be the third month that you’re working with this idea. And they don’t know how to convert intention into action. And that can be as easy. As simple as putting a prom when I started meditating, oh, my God, my intention was to meditate everyday, 20 times 20 minutes a day, the method that I learned the first time was 20 minutes, twice a day. And I will always forget the second time. And I felt like a failure. I’m like, No, I was having trouble converting intention into action. So I put posted, I put an alarm in my phone. So sometimes it’s as easy as prompt reminders. Sometimes it’s as simple as that. And sometimes it’s as complex as really finding the root of the opposition, after you’ve done all the work, and still is not about you. Still, it has nothing to do with to do with you being a good leader, but leader, a good coach about coach and good Mama, but mom. Now every time you find yourself saying I told him 1000 times that eating healthy was good for them. And they’re not doing it because they’re lazy. They don’t care. catch yourself, ladies. at yourself, it could be that they don’t think it’s a good idea. It could be that they think that the only way are those doing it. I don’t want to be the only ones. It could be that they don’t know how to do it low perceived ability. Or it could be something that I’m sure it has happened to you. It has happened to me many times. It’s hard to convert intention into action, action, meaning just do and they just do it. You know, it’s a practice and we put it that way. And those are the four challenges that most persuaders face that if we don’t, before I knew that I was like, you know, creating stories about them and about me, that sounded really good. And sometimes my ego was like that. And it were not making me or them feel better. And they were not moving my agenda for further by forward. And there you have it.


Wow. Yeah, I love I love that. Yeah, so many I can, I can definitely see how you have entire courses that go into depth on all of these. And how Yeah, how to overcome each one and, and identify them. And yeah, I just wonder if so is there. I love this awareness. And I wonder we were talking last time. In the last episode about the questions, you ask yourself those quality questions. And I wonder just like, now we’re aware of this so we can look for it. Do you have any any questions that you tend to ask your clients or yourself that helps navigate? challenging?



Absolutely, absolutely. So usually when people don’t think it’s a good idea, which is the first challenge is that they don’t under Stand the benefits. So I asked directly and let me tell you this is very difficult for a lot of people, do you think this is a good idea is difficult for people to tell you to your face? Now? I think it’s a bad idea. Right. But I usually asked I mean, do you think this is a good idea, meaning that and then I repeat the idea in a different way to lessen that stress that I’m not going to tell you to your face is a bad idea. But it’s important to get to the bottom because if they don’t think it’s a good idea, it’s okay. Then let me tell you why I think it’s a good idea. Now we’re open now I’m not selling to them, it’s more of a conversation. And they say that the other three would, the biggest problem that I find in the other three is that we all do this, I find myself I still do it, even though I teach these go back to selling the benefits. So if somebody has low perceived ability, which means they don’t know that they can do it, and you go back, you mean, you’re still not I went to the gym? Did I tell you if you go to gym, make sure your statistics again? I mean, and you come with it, because we do that, right? And it tells you the facts, facts, don’t convince, well perceived. And you’re still set, you’re on the first challenge that’s done. The person said, Yes, I would they need a personal trainer that is going to take them by the hand and teach them five moves, or three moves, or two moves doesn’t matter. Or maybe it was a walker around the around the block. So you you meet the person that wants to persuade, we need to get really curious and come from a place of total service, so that we can ask the question and stop the story. I don’t make the stories anymore I used to. And others a lot of like, they lie to me. They said yes. And then they don’t do it. You hear all the time. They’re lazy, if they’re younger, and they’re not doing at all the younger people are lazy. Now maybe they don’t think it’s a good idea. Maybe they don’t know how to do it. Maybe they maybe all of that is good. And they don’t know how to convert the intention to action. So asking the question now that we know that for there’s no that’s it. In all persuasive conversations, there’s only those four things. If you know, that the person truly thinks is a good idea, stop selling, put the facts away, that’s not going to


then you can move into the other three. So how do you feel about doing this? You know, how


did it go when you went to work and took your lunch? Maybe, you know, going back to the you know, I was there nobody’s doing I feel stupid and whatever my my, my partner’s go, my beers go out to drink every you know, Thursday and you start uncovering? Right? And so the one that hurts me the most usually is the low perceivability. When people really are sold into the idea. They say yes, they think they can do it. Because we do it on how many times you think you you hear idea you’re like, yeah, I’m or a marketing idea. And I sound so good. I’m gonna do it and you fail. So we don’t have the location, you don’t even know what you don’t know. So you don’t even know what to ask is your job. Or your job as a leader as a persuader, as somebody that is selling a service, a change to people’s lives? To find out where where’s the break, because there’s only four opportunities to break. Now each one is very good, could get very complex, but now we know it’s only four. And the biggest problem is that sometimes it’s just low perceivability. And we keep selling the benefits or, or it’s converting tension into action, and we keep training the person. Like do it. I know how to do it. It’s just that how many of actually that’s a big one, right? We think so good idea. Everyone’s doing it. We have total social support. We know how to do it with a trainer and we don’t just do it, we don’t do it. Use that even to myself. We use I use it on my team. I the other day, we’re talking about something. And my admin said my admin said, just don’t think it’s a good idea. I’m like, Damn, yeah, you’re right. It was so simple. Now after about it, and he was gone. There was no mysteries. I don’t think so that idea. And we talked about, you know, each other’s client or my clients like, oh, that plan didn’t do Oh, la perceivability. Okay, let’s nail that. It’s a practice, right. And it’s fun. Because the more I can take the weight out of me not being good enough. Whatever it is that I’m doing, the more I can show up as a leader, to have the other people that I want to lead into change the women that I want to be speaking up for example.



Oh, thank you so much for sharing that and just like built into the way you were speaking to I just want to highlight and put on the surface is this word sales. I was just with a group of clients recently talking about this word and what it brings up for us and how we can you know can feel like this manipulation or something that’s done outside of integrity, that kind of thing. So I just love that perspective that you just it was just right in there with what you were saying is that it’s really this idea of it’s a, it’s a leadership skill, like it’s a preservative nation, it’s about leading people to something new. And we won’t always be able to do that. But knowing those four elements and what to look for, it’s like, Okay, so let’s begin with like, Is it a good idea? Is there agreement that it’s a good idea, and then over some other? That’s a wonderful, powerful framework. Thank you so much for sharing that. You’re welcome. And thank you for the bonus time, Mary Carmen is such a delight. If you’re listening to this, and you haven’t heard the full interview, please do go back. We had a wonderful conversation earlier today. So and one more time in case we it was someone listening who didn’t hear the full our full conversation earlier. Where can we find you? And the more of the kind of work?



You can find me, the easiest way to find me is in my website is Mary Carmen Bishara, my Margaret And I’ve been playing a lot in Instagram lately. So I invite you to come there and play with me at my my handle is at Marie Carmen International.



Airport, and we’ll have all the links over at a path of her as well. Thanks for tuning in. Thank you, Ross. All right. Well, I will, I will let you know, when this is getting released. I think it’ll probably be August. But I’ll let you know. And if you’re up for it. What I’ve been doing, I do this with Elijah today. We had a lot of technical hiccups, but but I like to go live just 1015 minutes. And just like, Hey, you know, here’s my Carmen. Here’s a little bit of what we talked about. Go check it out. Like kind of colony, you know, and, and, you know, again, so you’re up here after that. That’ll be great to do that. Yeah,



let me know in advance. And also let me know how can I help with promo? Oh, yeah, I mean, this is a cool, actually, what I would love if I started a community. It’s a Facebook group right now, I’d love to make it something else later. But that’s the easy button for the moment. Okay, so if you’re around the podcast, and the idea is that it’s a place to continue, you know, so I don’t know about you. But sometimes I’m listening to a podcast tonight. I’m like, Oh, I wonder about this, or I wish they talked more about that or something like that, then it’s a place where people like listeners to talk to each other and love as many guests to be in the group as well. So people can reach you, as well. Like, oh, I’m curious about this, or you know. So if you want to, I can send you off as a link for that. If you want to join the group. There’s not really anything happening yet. It’s just, I just opened it yesterday. There’s probably 15 members or something


at the moment. 16 Listen, I can do to help you with ACF. Of course. Anything you need. Just ask and thank you. Yeah, I have super good memories of you. So


thank you. I that means a lot. Yeah. Same thing with always like, whenever you’re around here. Yeah. And I remember when you were on stage one time, and you and so many of my HCI clients were talking about they would repeat that like on our sessions for weeks, months afterwards. The niche, the dating of the niche. You’re like you became famous HCI famous.


I know people looked at me on LinkedIn and send me messages. But let me tell you the women’s thing that was me dating a niche because a lot of people come to me like what men need dates. I’m like, not my nature is women right now. No. I mean, I do man but not this particular. Like have your voice We heard you kidding me? God thinks that you’re gonna have a guide teach you that I’m not gonna be shut out. I’m not you know, we are different. Women are different. That’s the first thing that sometimes women don’t even want to admit we’re different and we have different needs. We mess that up. Equal we can’t we have babies we have other responsibilities are having our voice be heard. That’s all. That’s all I’m doing.



Love it. Love it. I’m so glad you’re still at it and continuing to pay new and interesting path for yourself taking on new projects and just like perfect. So again, don’t say, Alright, well I won’t keep you any more. I so appreciate your time your energy put into this and yeah, anytime you want to get into the podcast or share about it, that will be amazing. And I’ll let you know when our episode is up and live.



Alright, ma take care and thank you for thinking about me. This is really, really nice. Thank you so much. Thank you. Bye bye for now.