Pleasure is Required

an interview with Iana Walker


This is an unedited transcript:


Welcome to a path of her own. I’m blue Russ, and I’m sitting down with women who are building success on their own terms, asking questions to get the raw truth of the ups and downs of their journey. I hope that today’s interview sparked something within you.

To me, there are three things everyone should do every day. Number one is laugh. Number two is think. Spend some time in thought. Number three, you should have your emotions move you to tears. If you laugh, think and cry. That’s a heck of a day.

-Jim Valvano.

Hello, I am here with Iana Walker. And oh, my goodness, this is going to be one juicy conversation. Yana is she’s known by many things sensuality coach maybe is like a title that she is known for in our community. But she is someone I will say is like, she just brings out the power, the sensuality, the playfulness in people just just being around her, you can’t help it. The kid just she draws that out of people. Because she embodies that more than anyone in my life. So I just it, it has been just such an amazing journey to I’ve known IANA for years. And I’ll just say, just witnessing her from the first time I met her, I thought, here’s a powerful woman who’s acting timid. Like, honestly, that was my first impression of her many years ago. Right? Like, another lifetime feels like and just to witness her, remove that timid shell and really become who she is. What an honor to be in the circuit of that. So, so I’m really excited to dive in and learn more myself about Yana what she’s doing now what this journey has been like, and for you to hear it too. And I hope it sparks something really beautiful for you. If you’re listening. So Yana welcome.

Thank you Blue was wonderful. And thank you, too, for your part in my transformation. It’s definitely had a significant role. It’s funny because I really feel like my life is is truly magical. And you and Jen starting magical mamas like I was, I got a call from a friend of a mutual friend of ours Ginnie Mae yesterday. She’s like, can you go with me to Sedona today to pick up a car? And I’m like, yeah, absolutely. We jump in the car like 20 minutes later or hit to Sedona and I’m like passing Arcosanti. And I’m like, that’s where the magic started. That’s where my transformation began. like eight years ago, seven eight years ago like with the magical Mama’s with you and Jennifer, hope rich and Izzy. It really like it set the foundation for where I am right now. So I can’t thank you enough. And the weirdest thing about all that experience, like I talked about Arcosanti yesterday and I came home to a pendant from Colleen, who used to help us make pigments there that I made, like three years ago that like was on my desk in the mail. I was like of course, of course.

Oh my goodness. magic magic. Yeah. And for our listeners, just to clue you in a little bit more. Colleen Reko. And Jennifer hope Rich and I founded an organization called magical mamas, which exists still today. Jennifer, Pope Rich is the only one left running it. Colleen and I have got other things. But um, but Jen and I really mainly ran it for many years. And it was such a blessing. We had retreats, women’s circles, all for moms to really reclaim themselves and boy, did they boy did you?

Absolutely. Seriously. So yes. So to I think I realized been Yeah, like you said I was a shell of who I was like, I was Larry’s wife.

I was like who is that woman? And who is this woman

now? Well, I mean, how funny like, I don’t know I think this happens to him. Every woman when they become a mother, like you kind of lose who you thought you were to become a new person, right? And, and oftentimes women aren’t taught how to find their new selves, we’re because we’re trying to go back to who we were before, and we’re not that person anymore. And so I kind of faded into the shadows in life, I did what my husband wanted me to do. Like, I didn’t really have ambition or goals for my future, like, there were things I wanted to do, but I let my husband dictate my path and what I was doing because he had a plan, he was more persistent, he was more insistent that we do things his way. So I just went along with that. And so, you know, I did the whole just, I’m a mom. That’s who I was. And that to say, or diminish being a mom, but I wasn’t, ya know, for certain, you know, most people didn’t know my name. I was very shy. Like, it really didn’t speak it up at all for myself, really. And, yeah, just went along with my husband’s plans. That’s really that’s really where, where I found the definition of who I was.

You You got married, and started having children pretty young. Yeah.

Yeah, that’s an my, my backstory is definitely very interesting. So I was, um, I actually met my husband, I was 15. He was 22. We’re in Detroit, Michigan. And, you know, I was a teenager, and I wasn’t really fully aware what it meant to be in a relationship with a much older man. And over time, I realized, like, I was definitely manipulated and controlled a lot more than I knew, and almost molded to me what he liked, you know. And I was very, like, I was a very smart child, teenager, I mean, I still am, but I was also very sexually active, hence meaning of being with a 20 year old or 15. But once marriage, and kids have been like that, pardon me, almost completely went away. I can. I know, she was there. She was rumbling inside, you know, but, but my man, we he was working at a church and, you know, we got married, and it was just like, we’re just doing what everybody else is supposed to do. Right? We get we’ve gotten married, we have the kids, we have the house to the 2.5 kids with the dog, you know, like, like we had the life. So life you’re supposed to have and I mean, for me, I grew up with our group for I’m for I came from the projects. And now I had a five bedroom house with a pool and, uh, you know, like, well, I’ve made it right, like, This is what life is, but I was not happy. I wasn’t happy. You know, like, and I would do things to lash out, particularly sexually. So I would message guys online or talk to exes and I will get caught and I will be remorseful. And then the next time it will something worse, like something even more like, man, it’s just instead of talking to somebody on a text message, now I’m calling them like, it just kept spiraling down till I had an affair. You know, and there’s some other things that happen in our marriage that, you know, I guess in my mind justified me having this FERS like, but regardless, that’s the that’s the end result. And then I had another one. And then a couple years later, I had an affair and got pregnant. But what I realized in that third affair, I don’t know is this person like, in some ways, I felt like reactivated my sex drive, because I really was like, I didn’t I didn’t realize that I wasn’t as fulfilled sexually as I want it to be, like I was having I had small kids, we’d have sex to three times a month, which is normal for most married couples. And, you know, when I was with this guy, I literally had sex with him every day for hours on end, and I was so happy and so enlivened, like, I was losing weight, I was making more money and I was like, wow, like, who knew? Like having this much pleasure in this much happiness could actually improve my life? Like what? I don’t know. I mean, after that I my my husband found out and I also ended up pregnant and man the world just turned upside down for a little bit you know, like I was in a couple of other personal development programs I was very still a magical mom was I had done a program called landmark education and I was in this program when I had this affair so my husband was very much like you’re not a transformed person your DIG keep your word to not have affairs and here we are, you know, like, um, but the man love you And we stay married. And we chose not to have the father be in our daughter’s lives just because of values that conflict it. And so I stay married, and was even more miserable. But I had a newborn and I’m like, I’m not going anywhere, really, because I’m, he’s agreed to stay, and I don’t want to be on the streets or on my own with a new child. So we just, I just stayed, okay. And over time, I started to realize, like, if I want it to have, I wanted that pleasure, like, I missed that pleasure, I missed that feeling of like, Oh, my God, I’m not sexually dead inside, you know, like, it was just like, there was a void. And I kept trying to seek it in either seeing him sneakily, or I don’t know, so they just came to a time where I was like, He’s not healthy for me, he is extremely toxic, and I’m not getting what I need from my husband. So why don’t I try and have this for myself? Like, you know, I’m,

yeah, isn’t isn’t it interesting, I’m just gonna pop, thank you so much for sharing the story. And I definitely want to hear the next chapter, I just want to pause and recognize that, you know, part of the, our society’s expectation, right, as you spoke to is, where the destination is, is like, the kids in the house and, you know, being married, like, that’s the, that’s the goal. And that it’s not that those things are bad. That’s not worse thing. But, um, but this true sense of fulfillment, is often missing from the kind of those check boxes, right? And so, for you, you notice that and and the other narrative we’re in, right, is this, this idea of affairs and cheating, being like a personal fault? And I’m sure, I mean, the world is full of variety of people, right. So there, there may be situations where that’s accurate. But I think it’s it’s one of those taboo topics that I’m in the position of being a coach, where I get to hear things about people’s lives, that they don’t generally share the honor and privilege of that. So it is I think, having affairs is way more common than we’re willing to recognize. And it’s not about someone being bad, or being against their partner, right, it’s more about what’s missing, what’s unfulfilled in me, the same as they might reach for alcohol or drugs, or too much television, or overworking, or whatever it is, you know, whatever they’re reaching for, when they have no space to, to explore that, to talk about it for that to be what’s underneath that activity to be heard. When there’s no space for that, then there’s no opportunity to really find that sense of fulfillment in a positive way. Right. So it’s like, I think that’s a problem that we we really have. So I really appreciate you being transparent about your story. And I know you aren’t, like, not just here, but like, everywhere you go, you’re very open about what’s happened. And I just find that really liberatory. So thank you. Continue.

It’s my pleasure. I’ve noticed that too, like the first time I went to landmark, you know, you get up, people get up and share their stories and 95% of the people talk about how they’re victims of something. And not a lot of people actually share that they’ve done something and I was one of those people. I’m like, I cheated on my husband. You know, like, I’m the perpetrator here, you know, and then it was it was free, and it was liberating. And honestly, when I share my story, I don’t feel shame. And I don’t get a lot of responses. Like, oh, you should be ashamed. Like I get a lot of you know what, I’m in a similar boat, you know? So yeah, it is something that’s not commonly like, yeah, we’re putting in the wrong for for that a lot. And, yeah, so I wanted to find out what that narrative was like, what was really going on. I remember I had moved out I like we decided about 2019 Because I specifically asked, like, I’m a type of person that I don’t, I don’t do well with anxiety like I I try to just either ask or communicate my wishes and desires and see where it lands because me holding on to it. So for my birthday in 2019, I asked my husband if I could have a boyfriend. I was like, like, I need a sex partner outside. I did. And he said no, and I’m like, okay, so I moved out January 2020, because I’m like, I wasn’t happy here but I Um, I don’t know, it just it just we were where we are. And then COVID happened long list of events, I ended up having to move back in and he was so happy because he wants to be married, like, he wanted to stay married. And I was like, I don’t want nothing to do with this marriage because I don’t want to be monogamous. Like, um, but like I said, like, I remember being in my kitchen, and June of 2020, like, this is not at all the life I want at all. Like, yeah, and I took my kids escape to Sedona and my husband, like, had us talk to a marriage counselor. And I, I was like, you know, what, like, I need to find my sexuality for myself like, and, and I know, that involves more than you. And I know, it involves mostly myself. And so I started, I took that time to really delve deep into, like, my past, like, the patterns that I had noticed and starting to just acknowledge and honor that I was a sexual being, and that it was okay to be that. Because society really doesn’t have it that way. Especially not as a woman, and especially not as a curvy woman like you are objects are objectified. And I’ve happened since I was like, 11. You know, um, yeah. So to say, Okay, I’m going to embrace this, and I’m going to learn how to have pleasure in every moment in my life. So not even just sexual pleasure, but just like, pleasure while taking a shower, or pleasure looking outside my window at the park. You know, what’s, what’s nice about being around my kids? And then, can I bring myself that sexual pleasure that I was looking for? So I signed up for a lot of things like things like, educated and OMG. Yes, which is like, teach you how to self pleasure. And, you know, I follow people online, who were teaching women about embracing their sexuality and opening their sexual chakras and in calling in, you know, pleasure and abundance and all the stuff from the universe. And I mean, this was a real intensive study. It was like, all I did every day.

Love it. Yeah. On a pleasure quest.

I froze on a pleasure class. It’s a great, I love it. Yeah, I was gonna I was gonna pleasure quest.

Maybe that’s the name of your next program.

Yeah, right, I take I get so like, oh my gosh, I really felt fulfilled in myself to a point where I was like, okay, like, when I escaped to Sedona I knew what I actually needed from my husband, I’m like, I would like to do an experiment. I would like to do everything, but have sex with other men, and see if that satisfies this need. And, and he agreed to it. And he agree, like, I gave him access to everything I was doing. But I was noticing, like, he would see something interaction with the guy and at the time, most of the men are interacting with we’re out of state, they were old exes, or people that interacted with in high school, and, um, it was it was I what I desire to have happen was have these interactions with these men, and then go and be frisky with my husband, because I’m all sexually charged. And it never happened that way. He was very jealous, and he was argumentative. And when nitpick things I was saying, Man, and I’m like, It’s really no point. Me doing this, if you’re not getting the benefit of me being horny, okay? Like, there’s no point, I’m just, you know, like, um, and then I thought I find another avenue, a friend of mine told me about this possibility of being a dominatrix. And I was like, that sounds cool. Like, so like, have this like, I don’t know, power over men, and they were gonna train me and it was gonna be like, I was like, awesome. That sounds fun. So I went to work at this den for a few weeks. And while I was in training, my husband’s like, now your sex worker and our kids are going to get taken away. He just got very scary and I’m like, Really, I can’t pursue anything. I’m like, There’s nothing. He also was really, like, worried I was gonna run off with somebody. I’m like that, to be honest. And not I don’t mean to be. I don’t know, I hope, some kind of way about this, but it was really just a white man. There was nothing, you know, like, there wasn’t, that’s all. You know, like, there’s got to be attracted to here.

No, no one you would even consider running off with no,

no, go for it. There’s no threat to our marriage by me doing this thing. Whatever. Um, but still, I started to feel more in my power at that job because I was being a woman in power with my sexuality. And that felt extremely awesome. And along the way, like, as I’m collecting these lessons, and I’m sharing with my friends, I’m like, people are like, wow, this stuff is fascinating. Like, I want to learn and then I start doing workshops and, you know, going to retreats and doing one offs and every time like The transformations woman had are the the things that came to me on the spot where like, I just, it felt so magical mystical, I’m like, this is exactly what I need to do. Like, I need to teach women how to embrace this and how to have it show up powerfully in their lives. Period like this is I feel like the missing LinkedIn in women’s power is embracing and owning their sexuality. And now, and now I know that for sure, back then in 2020, and 2021, it was it was the grand experiment, it was like me with myself, me interacting with others. And in such a way as you know, I could fathom that this would work. And then after the the dungeon situation, I was like, You know what, I’m out, I’m done trying to make this work. You’re clearly too jealous and not interested in working on your own insecurities to allow me to be myself. So I’m just gonna leave. So I moved out in August 2021. And I don’t know, buy a divine, seriously, divine roommate play Smith. I was telling, I was sharing my life story with my new roommate. And she was like, Do you want to have sex? I was like, Yeah. And she’s like, well, we can do that. And then that Friday, we went to a lifestyle party at someone’s house. And I walked in, and the guy who has the door was naked. And then there was like, people in every room doing things like, and I was like, people are just having sex everywhere. What is happening? Just like, there’s so many things to look at, and oh my gosh, I love it here. And literally, I didn’t do I didn’t really interact. I played a little bit at that party. With that’s what we call it. Cos x plane. Okay. You know, there’s still the world at large who’s not necessarily comfortable with this, but I didn’t necessarily play at that party. But after we left, I asked my roommate, I was like, Is anyone doing this on the east side? Can we do this at our house? And the very next week, we had our first party, like, I had one party one weekend, and then the next weekend, I had three including one I was hosting myself.


I know. Fast. It was fast. It was very fast. Because I felt for the first time I felt at home. Like I felt like who I was wasn’t a perversion fake. That will save to be sexual. And it was welcomed and accepted.

Safe to be sexual. I just want to breathe that in for a moment. I think as women in this culture of ours, that’s a that’s a rare feeling. Mm hmm.

Who Yeah, so I don’t know ever since then, it’s kind of been like a dream.

To go into these spaces, and I’ve had my ups and downs here for sure. But I’m like, I was I was doing a lot of work on. Actually. I met a woman named Marianna Riley, and she’s been in the same circles we’ve been in and the first time she told us, she met me, she was like your sex goddess. And I was like, What? What do you mean, she’s like, in a past incarnation in your life, like you worked in temples, and you’re a sex goddess. And that’s why you’re like, so magnetic. And that’s why people flock to you. That’s why you have all these messages. That’s why and I was just like, what, and I felt like, when I got that message in this room, I’m like, that’s absolutely what’s been the case. It’s like, I’m a sex goddess. I’m meant to heal people sexually. Mm hmm. And that’s, that’s how the best way I feel like I could explain the work I’m doing. Because I’ve been doing this work with women for like, a year while I was working with women with their sexuality for a year. And like I said, I it felt like a grand experiment. But now I’m like, I’m in the experiment. I’m fully living experiment. And everything I’ve worked on has been true. Like, I and I noticed this to the difference. Because I feel like I came into the lifestyle as a healed woman in control and empower in my sexuality. Mm hmm. And there’s not a lot of women in this community that are here with that presence. And so I’m noticing a lot of things I’m noticing first of all, a lot of intimidation. Like I tend to intimidate Women cuz I like I am. I go into a room and these places and I’m like in the zone and I can be dancing with one guy and I and another one and everybody in the rooms looking at me. And I’m just like, this is insane first of all, and then I’ve encountered like women who are like in extreme admiration like oh my gosh, can I just be in your essence I want to soak up all this juice and my roommate called me a faucet of sexual energy like i i literally like people come like just touched me well, while they’re having sex, and it magnifies their orgasms. This one lady was like I needed like, she asked me to stop tight. I was just touching her nightly. And she asked me to stop and I was like, afterwards Did you want me to stop? And she was like, No, I was going to squirt across the room. And I didn’t want to clean that up. And I was like, Oh, all right. Wow. No, but you know, I would go I would have sex with with men or women. And I feel like I have so much energy. Like there’s one weekend. I didn’t sleep for four days, because I was just high on sexual. Like, just completely fueled. I know some people call it a succubus, but I’m like, oh, no, there’s so many words and things. I feel like there’s not really a way I can define it. But I just continue to be in the flow of sexual energy. And I love feeling the energy off people in that mode. And I love like, how deep and intimate that connection is and also how just on a surface level fulfilling it can be too. It’s just a very How to know it feels like my bread and butter feels like my purpose. That and then in addition to that, I get moments where because I’ve been in circle with women or been able to been holding space for people for so long, where I’m in the middle of something and I end up holding a man that’s crying tears, because he’s never been spoken to like that, or he’s never been loved like that. And that’s just from our interactions, not from me doing anything special. Just like I don’t know, I can’t tell you how many times now that I’ve had people pull me aside and just tell me their life story in the middle of a sex party you know, and then they come out of it like, Wow, I feel so much better. I didn’t Wow. Like, I understand why I do this. And thank you for sitting with me. And I’m just like, I can’t believe this is my life. I can’t believe this, I get to go I get to have sex. A public exhibition is good to have everybody watching me I get to be in the room. I get to have so much pleasure. Like, Mm hmm. I didn’t know there was this much pleasure possible in the world, like and I get to be so happy. Like, I had one of the best sexual experiences of my life like

two Saturdays ago with a man and I’m now really actually deeply in love with and who man I was still vibrating an orgasm in four hours later. I felt energy shooting out of my head out of my toes. Like ha ha I was so happy. I was ugly crying happy tears in the middle of Texas Roadhouse. Like, like people are gonna think you’re doing something mean to be and I’m just so fucking happy. Like this is real life. This is my wife is happy. No. So yeah, there’s this loose piece of me this like, This is it? You know, and I, I’m into so many other things. Like, I’m really accepting of different people in different orientations and BDSM and stuff. And I’m really just exploring, like, truly have no limits to what’s possible. In pleasure. And then I noticed my life just fold around. Like, I get everything I say I want like, this is a silly side story, but my roommate, she had a she was with someone that was a drug dealer, and they had went to a rave and he bought VIP tickets and all this stuff. And I was like, Man, that sounds fun. I need a drug dealer. As a sex partner, and like three days later, I met one and I was like, No, I don’t need a drug dealer.

Be careful how you wield that power.

Like you really do. You really do have to be careful. Know that the head is you know, like, I’ve had some incredible experiences and the man I’m with now like, it’s been so fast track. I’m like, at first he reminded me so much of my husband but he had all the things that like he was he worked a lot. He was very committed to setting up his life. But just subtle twists in the conversation And I’m like, he’s open to me being open. And me being myself. He’s not trying to change or put restrictions on what I do. Um, you know, he gets excited about my encounters, he wants to hear all about them and not in a like, controlling way. He’s, like, genuinely happy that I’m happy. And it’s like likewise. So yeah, like this, these lasts, I don’t know, seven, eight months. I used to go to retreats. And I used to go to escape my life, right to get to a place where I could think and be for myself. And these last few months, I’m like, I don’t want to go on retreat. Like it’s hard to go on retreat, because I love my wife so much. Like, I don’t want to leave. There’s so much stuff. I want to miss.

Oh, yeah. So much joy and pleasure. It sounds like in your life every day. And I Yeah, it’s interesting, because you think you had just moved out. And then the next month of September of 2021, I was running retreat, and I invited you to come in and do bring your magic there. And, and I think you were the last one to arrive. And you’re like I did, I had to, like pry myself away from my amazing life to be here. And you and I have been on many retreats together at this point. And that was the first time and witnessed that. Right. It was always like, you were like, Oh, thank God.

Yes, exactly.

The opposite of like, I don’t know. But I’m so glad you took a pause to come and be with us. Because I will say it was really profound for me. And I shared this with you at the time, but I’ll share it with the world right now. That I realized, so you did this really powerful workshop one evening, and I don’t know workshop doesn’t really do it justice. But like you said, current language is limited. And I I really didn’t know what to expect. It’s difficult as a facilitator to really receive at a retreat like it’s not it’s you’re just in a different place. Like I’m monitoring things that I wouldn’t when I’m a participant and so, so I actually considered not doing it all because I didn’t want to sort of halfway do it. Like I had a sense. I know how powerful you are. And I, I didn’t want to be halfway in it, you know. And then I also, you know, feeling kind of conflicted, and then ultimately decided to do it. And I’m so glad I did. Because it was it was really amazing, like no experience that I’ve had before. I had no expectation going in, I had no idea what it was going to be like. And it was like we went to another planet. I mean, it really felt that way which in hindsight, it’s like, well, that’s the planet. Like that’s earth actually, that’s that is actually where we live. But it’s it’s like it’s hidden from us. And I think on purpose in some way, right? Like, there is so much power in women’s sexuality. So, so what what I personally took away from that experience is that I recognized that during COVID, I put up a lot of protection, like I really buckled in, I took it on, like, I’m here protecting my family, like went into Mama Bear mode. And one of the things that I didn’t realize I had, I didn’t fully realize I had put a shield around was my own sexuality in that process. Right? I would just, it’s kind of like when you go into fight or flight, and you shut down like you don’t digest, you don’t want to have sex you don’t want to, you know, like or anything like, peripheral. It’s like you just trying to survive. You have like no energy for anything else. And wow, I didn’t even recognize how deeply I was in that state until your workshop and that armor came off that night. So thank you.

Wow. It’s my pleasure.

Yeah, yeah. So powerful, powerful. I mean, it’s just like, I think what you’re bringing it just it is it is so needed. And, and I love to that it’s it’s like you’re you it’s really for you first. Mm hmm. Right. So often I think women as healers, we’re it’s outside it’s out. We want to kill other people. And then oh, maybe we get something out of it and that process like, kind of have to. But for you, it’s like truly, you first lead the way like that. That’s essential. Like there is no ripple out unless you’re really steeped in what is true and pleasurable for you.

Absolutely. Yeah, that’s one thing that um, so I didn’t even mention this. But the company I started to help others was called design. It’s called desiring me. And that’s the tagline. It’s like teaching women to be the primary beneficiary of their sexuality, like,

Oh, can you say that one more time.

So, the goal of my organization is to teach women to be the primary beneficiaries of their sexuality. Like, their sexuality is for them. And we weren’t, we’re not taught that you taught that. A virgin is supposed to give that to your man or this first person you interact with. And it’s not it’s not yours, or it’s taken from you. You know, like, it’s, we don’t have it in our culture that, like, we’re supposed to benefit from our sexuality. No, like, I don’t know, as a kid you like, Okay, we find out what sex was. We’re gonna find out. We’re not supposed to do it until we’re married, supposedly, and then all of a sudden. Oh, is it? Does it feel good is okay that it feels good? Because it’s been told, I’ve been told that it’s wrong this whole time. Like, and yeah, no, like, my partner said, I had 47 orgasms that day. Like, I was like, I don’t even I wasn’t present. I just remember feeling like vibration. Like I wasn’t no longer feel my body anymore. I just felt buzzing everywhere. Like, I didn’t have a physical being at that kind of pleasure is possible. And we’re not. I feel like we’re missing out. Like, I refuse to believe that. I was put on this earth to suffer only like, it’s here to suffer. That’s it. And suffering is how you get in through the gates. Like have the pleasure later. Like, but there’s access to pleasure now.

Mm hmm. Yeah, I mean, our bodies as you have pointed out, I mean, our, our bodies, especially women’s anatomy, like if you’re if you’re born female. Right, you

you have a clitoris. Mm hmm.

whose only job is pleasure? Yeah, that’s it. Like, why did that happen? We’re not supposed to have pleasure. Yeah, you know, I can’t be able to stick

it we can’t. So yeah, yeah, really, absolutely. Aiming to undo that. And there’s so much sexual trauma in the world. Like, you can’t, you almost can’t get out of being alive without having some kind of sexual trauma, like, or whether it’s directly or indirectly, or something that happened to you or something that was said to you, or something that’s been suggested. And, man, and I see it now, like, every day, you know, I came from, you know, the community of magical mandalas, where, you know, people saw me as a healer, and I was like, I saw others as whole and complete. And we there was this, like, reverence and acknowledgement for things like the sister wound and, you know, how we’ve been taught to be in these places with people. And in this community, it’s like, it’s almost like, I don’t know, I’ve, I’ve, I feel like I’ve stumbled upon the people who, who want that kind of liberation and freedom, and yet, they’re still trapped in the like, definitions of society, right? Like, that. It’s wrong, that they should be doing this, or it’s some kind of competition or you can’t have that one. I can’t have this one. Like, if you’re doing that person, I’m not doing that person. It’s like, you know, I I got disheartened for a little bit like, oh my gosh, like, people are misunderstanding my intentions in the world. And my intentions are to help you heal and work through this stuff. So you can come and be the sexually liberated, powerful badass woman who says no, when she means no, and, you know, like, owns the room and speaks her desires clearly. Like that’s what I see as possible for you. You know, like and I’m just like, oh, yeah, no, there’s a new playground for me now, like there’s work to do. That’s, that’s now what I’m looking at. I’m like, okay, good. I see that there’s work to do here and there’s work to do all over the world. But yeah, it’s been interesting to see like how society really plays out over not only just you know, people who are married with children, but over people who say they want this you know, like it still has an impact that you

Wow, that yeah, shame that competition. Right runs deep. I mean, it’s, we get those messages from all over the place. And the other thought I had along the way is that I This, this idea that you are a sexual being or a mother. Also there are these false dichotomies that exist. And I really, I also want to just mention your children. And what an amazing mother You are, right? Just, it. It’s not a either or. Right. I mean, in some ways it can feel that way, just because society has set us up to fail. Like it doesn’t. It doesn’t actually matter. Like, you can be an amazing mom and be called a prude. Because you’re trying to follow that gentle as though it’s a choice, right? Or you can be very sexually expressive, and like, oh, but don’t expose children to that. Yeah, it’s like, Well, is it actually? So maybe you could speak to that? Like, how do you feel like you have to choose I,

I’m in a weird space, because I also feel like my husband is still very much so like a prude. But just like he’s very much approved. Yesterday, even like I was, I was on the phone, talking about the party ahead last weekend. And I was talking, like I say, in terms of, like, it was very generic. It wasn’t super like. There was nothing about it that my kids couldn’t hear yet, my husband walked in the room. And he was like, he told my second my second daughter to go in, sit in his room, because he didn’t, she didn’t need to be here in my conversation. And I was like, There’s nothing about my conversation that she couldn’t have heard, like, um, and so I still feel like I’m fighting a battle in my own with my own children, about talking to them about their sexuality, like my middle daughter is, she’s communicated that she’s bisexual. And I’m like, You know what I like women to like, and that’s totally fine. That’s great. Like, I want to be more open with my kids. And I feel like I’m allowed to be because of my husband’s influence. And at the time, they don’t come to where I stay just because I don’t have enough space. But we’re still working through the divorce. And I’ll plan to have them 5050 time where he doesn’t have to be around when I’m with my kids. And that’s really what I’m looking forward to be able to make sure that this is communique. I’ve already communicated things like pleasure is not saying it’s not a problem to feel good. This is what your body is, and what it does, like I’ve communicated that stuff. I don’t know where it’s at, or where it’s landed. But it’s yeah, you know, like, I’m still learning to, and,

and it’s yeah, it’s delicate. Steven, you and you embodying I mean, the fact that like this quote at the beginning, right, you made you laugh, and think and cry daily, right? You’re, you’re living these full days, this pleasurable life? And, I mean, if I can feel it, listeners, I’m sure feeling like anybody encountered. Certainly, your three daughters are feeling it.

Yeah. I mean, I think they know, like, I am so much happier. I’m so much happier now than I was like, night and day difference. And I’ve lost like 50 pounds in four months. Like just just off being happy and not having like, the weight of not being myself. Because really, that’s why I feel like like, I feel like I chipped away at all the stuff Society said I was and I got to myself. Mm hmm. Yeah, and I really get to be that in the world, and you don’t see a lot of people being genuinely authentically themselves unapologetically. Yeah. And I feel like a force in the world because I’m doing that. Like, I feel like I get to have my way in the world because I know exactly who I am. And the world conspires to do that for me, like, seriously, intently, quickly, conspires to give me what I want. You know, my roommate one time she’s like, You made me need to learn patience. And I was like, Why? Because I literally get what I asked for. Why I need to be patient. When I asked for it, it shows up like, oh, and I feel like that’s the magic. And the secret to like, having the life you want is like being yourself, unapologetically. Yeah, and asking for your desires. I mean, what some people have to know what they are. And I encountered that this weekend. My my roommate wanted to plant medicine journey with her birthday party this weekend. So in the middle of a play party, we had a ceremony and take it very seriously and have people come in and at the end of it, one of the, one of the people, they they participate in BDSM culture and he was like, I do this because I want I want to make other people happy, but because I don’t know what I want myself and how do you find out what happiness is? And I remember going to a screening one time of a mutual friend of ours, where they talked about women in their stories about being right. Or their sexuality being taken away from them. And one lady mentioned that now she lives her life by the yuck mem factor. Okay, like, she checks in. And if it’s feels yucky, it’s a no when you don’t do it. And if it feels like that’s a Yum, it feels yummy to do it, you do that? Hmm. And so, you know, like, I only do things that bring me pleasure. And so to find out what you like, in the moment, ask yourself, Do I like this? And we’re happy in this moment? Yes. Then you add that to the list of things that you can do for yourself to make yourself happy. You know, and if in the moment something is yucky, like it doesn’t feel good. Practice not doing it. Like, what if I didn’t do that? Or what if I, like, did something different instead of what if I acknowledge it this time, because I’m still in the muck of this. But like, I know, now, I can’t do that again. You know, like, that’s it. It’s just that tiny of like, acknowledging, yes, this is something that brings me pleasure. This is something that I like, I’m going to pursue more of this. I’m going to pursue feeling this more and more. So now my life is that in eating in the moments more life is not that because I’m not saying my life is perfect. Like literally the Tuesday after that, you know, blissful. Last Sunday, I had me and my new partner had kind of a breakdown. And man, it was hard and that he thought I wasn’t gonna ever be happy again. And I’m like, no, like, we need conflict, right? We need pain, and we need those things to help us see what is possible. So like, yet, after two days after that, I’m like, No, super blissed out again, like it’s all good. Don’t worry. You know, but I choose to be in those emotions fully. I in this moment. I’m sad about this situation. And in the next moment, if I’m happy I’m not proclaim how fuckin happy I am.

Hmm. You know? Yeah. I love this. Oh, my goodness. I love this so much. I it’s it’s like, I just, yeah, the thing too. It’s not just about expanding pleasure, right? I think a lot of the reason we don’t expand pleasure is to protect ourselves from pain. Yes. And the truth is, they are. They work together? I mean, just like, the things that are seemingly opposite are choices like, they come together, actually both. So often, it’s not either or, yes, it’s both. And yes, it is. So I really hear you saying that, too. It’s like when you when you’re opening up to pleasure, you’re also opening up to feeling pain. And that is not something to run away from, right. It’s like we need I read this book years ago, that was about this woman who couldn’t feel pain. And like physical, like, she had a physical, something was wrong with her neurological system. And she could she actually couldn’t feel pain, and just how the whole book was about how important feeling pain is. Because she would literally like, like, she stepped on a nail one day and didn’t know till much later than it happened. When she like, looked at her foot, like, oh, it’s bleeding. There’s a frickin nail in it. Like, what, you know, um, I don’t know if that was exactly it, but it was like, some intense injury. And then, you know, by that time, it’s like, well, there’s risk of infection, there’s to bleed out like, so she had to constantly be monitoring her body to see because you kind of feel what was happening, you know, so that always stuck with me like, yeah, pain definitely has its place. It’s really important information.

Yes, it is. Yeah. And yeah, I don’t hide from it. I don’t hide from going through the pain. You know, I’ve I’ve done a lot of work. Like I I don’t know. Someone once told me like, you know, when you start going on a road of self healing, it’s like peeling an onion. Like there’s layers and layers. Yeah, it’s like a never ending layers. It’s just never ending. And I’ve always been someone that was willing to look deeply in my layers and go okay, what does this thing mean about me, right? What am I making this mean about being live? What impact is this having or how I’m being who I was by impacting somebody. And I don’t ever shy away from the times where I’ve caused someone else pain or recently realized that I like literally this weekend in this confrontation with him realize I actually put aside my pain for some for other people sometimes like to be in the space to hold space for other people’s pain. Yeah, I put away my pain. I was like, oh, no, we’re not doing that anymore. You know, like, you know, so looking like no, this hurt me. That did you know Like invoicing that because it like you said it exists for a reason. Without it, we won’t know how much pleasure is possible without it, we won’t know how strong we are, or what we are capable of.

Yeah, Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah. And I really appreciate this frame of yuck and yum. I’m taking that one home. Which is because I think often it is, it’s hard to know what our desires are. Because we get in our head about it. You know, and that’s where a lot of like society messages other people’s voices live there too. And are a lot of doubts and insecurity, you know, like, so I really, you know, you know, me I’m really into, like, let’s get down into our bodies and, and sometimes I recognize that can feel really unsafe to do that for a variety of reasons. But, but I love this like yum, yum. Because that it’s there’s no thought to it, right? It’s just like, what’s your reaction to this? Yum, yum are more like, they’re less words and more of a sensation. I feel like they express the sensation more than the thought. Right? So love it. Well, we need to wrap up for now. But um, let’s let’s record a little bonus episode. Because I Yeah, there’s definitely more to talk about. So stay tuned for the bonus. But for now, I know people are probably wanting more of you. Where can they find you?

Awesome. So website desiring And you can find me on Instagram at desiring me. That’s Yes, basically where I live. Not super active, like I say, because I haven’t fully in. I’m fully in my life right now. And and, you know, plucking out the lessons and living them truthfully. But yeah, I’ve got many ideas. I have people who are like, please do workshops, please come back. Like please give us this medicine because it’s I mean, you know, I’ve many witnesses to my life that are you know, definitely in awe and inspired and I want to be that like, I know my life has a bigger purpose. So yeah, like stay tuned for more. I mean, find me at desiring me where you learn to desire yourself.

Thank you so much. Thanks for listening to a path of her own today. I’d love to connect. To be in the loop on upcoming events, tips and inspiration, please visit www dot blue And subscribe to my mailing list.