Legal Love:
An Interview with Lisa Fraley
This is an unedited transcript:
Wisdom is knowing when to have rest, when to have activity, and how much of each to have
Welcome to a path of her own. I’m Blue Russ. And I’m sitting down with women who are building success on their own terms, asking questions to get at the raw truth of the ups and downs of their journey. I hope that today’s interview sparked something within you.
Welcome. I am sitting here and I’m just, I’m feeling so good. This is how I always feel when I’m with Melissa Kelly. And we were just before we hit record talking about like, oh, how do we introduce you. And, you know, there, there’s a standard list of accomplishments that usually are presented, and we were just talking about how that’s not, like, doesn’t totally align with our lives. You know, depending on your sort of, you could use a lot of different language for it, you know, sort of our Western way, or patriarchy or white supremacy, or whatever you want to label it. It’s sort of tied to a lot of really unhealthy things. Let’s just agree on that. So we’re not going to start that way. And I love, love, love so much. I asked Melissa, Well, how else would you introduce yourself? Because honestly, I struggle with this, like, I don’t know, in some way, like I want to know, like, what work in the world people have done. But is that something I really need to know when I meet someone? Maybe not. So I’m going to share with you this list of descriptor words that Melissa described herself. And I just love how well she can see herself because I’m nodding over here, as she’s saying each one. So she is creative, nurturing, present, loving, and connected. So this is who the being of Melissa Kelly is. I have any input. So Well,
Melissa Kelley
let’s hope that people see. That’s what I hope that is present. Because we know that we can forget things that people have done are things that people have said, but we don’t forget the way people make us feel.
Blue
Mm hmm. That is so true. I forgot who is sort of quoted as saying that.
Maya Angelou.
Blue
Would that makes sense?
Yeah. And if I’m misquoting My apologies, I think most brilliant things have been said by that woman’s
Blue
Yeah. Yeah, true way with words. For sure. So yeah, so Melissa, and I we met in coaching training. She is a masterful coach, guide. Author podcaster as well. And yeah, well, we’ll share at the end, how to find more of Melissa. But I think the thing that I love and admire currently in this moments about Melissa the most is her. Just the clarity she has around taking time to rest. Thanks. Thank you.
Yeah, that that clarity is something I’ve been working on for years and years and years. I, I like lose shared, I have to stop myself from that sort of, like knee jerk reaction or that automatic reaction to list off like, who am I what do I do in the world and all of the list of things, the roles that I play for other people, the ways in which I contribute to my household, to my community to societies, oh, like, that’s the path I go down. And as you said before, there are many, many reasons for that. And it feels very patriarchal to me and, and not something I want to perpetuate in the world. So I’m one of those people when I see something, I’m like, Oh, okay. Well, I don’t like how that feels, or that doesn’t quite fit me. And so what I want to do now is find what does fit and I’m gonna try that out in the world. And it’s a little countercultural, but like, that’s where I’m going. So, I appreciate you coming along on that ride with me as I try and kind of Have, reframe it for myself and, and help other people in my environments to also go Oh, wow, that’s really unique and then think about how they introduce themselves and maybe why they’re doing that, right? Mm hmm.
Blue
Yeah. Yeah, it’s like so many things that we do. You know, like our, I’m sure others have said this too. But our good friend, Elijah, who also runs a really amazing podcast, says, you know, it’s, it’s like the water we’re swimming in we, we don’t even maybe notice the things are question after question like, Why? Why do I feel the need to do that. And I also really the thing that I really heard between sort of the way I was ready to introduce you, and I’m so glad we had that conversation, is I was gonna list off all the things that you do, and you shared, who you be. Right?
Right, that’s really a place that I’m trying to live into more and more, and it’s, it’s taking a lot, right. One of the things you and I share is a background and a body of work that really opened me up to the idea that just because things have been a certain way doesn’t mean that they’ll always be a certain way, and that we have some control, right? Like I, I don’t buy into the line of thought that like, oh, well, if we just think it we can I mean, like, Yes, I believe in manifesting. And I also believe in making yourself available for those opportunities, right, and, and showing up and doing some things around that. And there are very real ways which we can’t show up because of either who we appear to be in the world, whether that’s gender or race, or you know, there are some real barriers. So I don’t want to just ignore that. Right? We want to say, within the confines of our worlds, there are choice points. And what am I choosing? And what am I putting on for other people? What am I choosing for myself? And I feel like right now I’m in that place of I am choosing to rest and recover. I am choosing not to push through and keep going even though that that’s what feels natural to me. Right? Like that’s, if I had to say that there was a superpower that people told me I always had, it was pushing through pushing through and producing, no matter what, no matter what, no matter just continuing to go. And what I’ve realized is while there may be times where that is valuable, or maybe there are periods in our lives where that approach is the best one for us, but it’s not all the time. And so you know, there does come a cost from pushing down, pushing through continuing to go Go, go, go, go, go go. For whatever reason we do it right, we all have different reasons for doing it. But I’ve decided that that no longer serves me in fact, probably nine times out of 10 it never served me even though it was reinforced by the world. Right that? Oh, yeah. So Melissa can do this, and she can push through and that’s her superpower. And if you want something done, give it to her because she’s going to, you know, fill in the blank, whatever that is. That’s, that’s not me. And I’m, I’m having to consciously choose every single day. Like, oh, I’m not gonna let that judgment stop me today from doing X, Y and Z. Like I still I have to be so present in choosing it because the patterning is so deeply ingrained. And the shame is so deeply engraved from, you know, not wanting to push, push, push, push, push, you know, what’s wrong with me? Is she lazy? Is she sick? Why isn’t she doing you know, I mean, it’s like people have so many judgments about rest. And I really think it’s because we don’t condone it as a society. And so people look down on people that aren’t quote, unquote, actively doing something, right.
Blue
Yeah, yeah. Oh, so rich so much and what you just said So, um, one of the first things you touched on was, yeah, this training that we had. And the very first step in that process is to step back. Right? So like, hit the pause button, however you can, and sort of try to be the observer of what’s happening. Take a break from being a participant and decide how you want to participate. Right? So that’s, that’s really simple. For me. It’s a whole, there’s a process from there. But I felt like if we all only just stepped back, how incredibly powerful that would be,
right? And how different our experience would be. And there are very good reasons that people have to want to keep us distracted right to not be asking the question, to just be jumping into the game. If we don’t step back, then we are. We are underscoring like their musical we are we are in distributing. Whether we know it or not, it’s like I don’t know if you’ve heard the quote before. too. It’s something about when you be careful what what you put what you feed yourself, what thoughts you think, like, be careful what you let in, because what you let in will control you. And I was like, oh, like, oh, yeah, that’s the autopilot thing when we just when we don’t question and we just take in whatever is around us then make that normal, then we just we are caught up in this place where we’re in somebody else’s agenda, right? Yeah. And I’ve always been a little bit of a rebel. And so I used to rebel for all the wrong reasons. I think it’s still was like, okay, yes, I’m rebelling and yes, I’m pushing back. But I think there’s something really rebellious and resting, and recovering, and taking time to heal and taking time to just get back to the basics. That is so important to find the spaciousness right?
Blue
Mm hmm. Yes. I just heard recently this phrase breast as resistance is so powerful. I think I heard on Elijah’s podcast actually, I might just be Yeah, no, I did on the show notes, too.
Um, yeah, but that’s so true. It’s such a I’ll get caught up in the like, the things I have to do. And then I’m like, But wait a minute, Do I really have to like, is the world gonna stop? Is somebody in my family gonna suffer is, you know, like, what is? Why am I just doing the thing? Where’s the joy? You know, I? Yeah, I think for having so much depth in my life. So early on, you know, death of parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, friends, like, you know, all of that happening, has really pushed the perspective of like we have today. We have right now. Yeah, and, and lifetimes are built on days. It’s the things we’re doing every day is what our life is built on. It’s not these moments, right? It’s not the graduation from high school, or the college or the what, like, when we look back over the course of our life, when we look at our wellness or overall health and wellness, that is significantly impacted by the daily not by those like those Kodak moments that we’re having, or by the Instagram feed or the Facebook or what people are saying or not like, though, that’s not it, what it is what we do on a daily basis.
Blue
Hmm, absolutely.
So I have been in a place this past year of going, Okay, well, what do I want today to look like? And how am I gonna rest and recover? You know, we don’t stop as a society when things happen, and really mourn or really sit in the discomfort of a transition or pause like we don’t go necessarily with the seasons and we don’t listen to the nature and how it’s responding around us, right, like we’re just we It’s going, going, going, going, going going. And so to pull back and to be like, wait a second, what do I want to do today? And, and not in that selfish way, right? Because we’re still in communities. So I recognize that what I do impacts my connections with others. So that’s a real thing to consider when I’m thinking about my day. And so it’s not coming from a selfish place or a place of lack, it’s actually coming from this desire to be more connected, to be more present, to be more available for all of life’s experiences.
Blue
Mm hmm. I love that. I just want to pause and let us receive that. Imagine rest, not out of lack. Right? I think so often, rest is like, almost a last resort. Right? I’m so exhausted, all I can do. Right. And what you’re suggesting is like, Oh, actually, seeing rest as, like, that’s the, that’s the priority. That’s the thing that helps you be more connected, helps you experience more of life helps you build that lifetime of days. With Purpose. Yeah,
in a way that, you know, brings integrity to who I am in a way that helps to promote others to be in alignment with their integrity, right. So it’s just that idea of like, the last resort, we have to push through. I think, as a woman, I feel this a lot. And in many ways, as a white woman, I have so much privilege and I, I just want to acknowledge that I can rest, right, because I’m not working two jobs. I can rest because I’m not a single mom, I can rest because I have reliable transportation on a roof. Like there’s so many places that I as a white woman can can take some spaciousness. And how we all take up space is going to look different, but I encourage people to find space where they can.
Blue
Yeah. Yeah, what I was just thinking, I’m imagining someone listening to this and going, Wow, that sounds like fantasy life. What planet do these ladies live on?
Right? I mean, yeah, it is so countercultural, and it’s so it’s a big fuck you to the system. Frankly, when we don’t push ourselves when we don’t drain ourselves for everybody else, all the time. It is. It is from that place of power, like where I can really enjoy my life. I don’t enjoy it when I’m rushing through and pushing through and multitasking eight different things. And you know, at the end of the day, you slide into bed, you burnt out, your libido is probably down. Like there’s so many things that that impacts that where is the payoff really that great? I looked at my life last year, and I was like, okay, Melissa, here are all the things you’re doing. Here’s all the ways you’re pushing through. Are you really benefiting that much from this? Like, there’s some amazing result you’re getting? And the answer was no. And I was like, Oh, shit. Okay. All right. Now I know better. Now. Now, I’ve had some new Aha, that goes okay. All right, what how can I do more of what I want and less of what I don’t want. And that’s what I’m working on. And I’m working through a lot of this stuff. You know, I believe in obviously coaches, and I believe in therapeutic like CBT and, you know, there’s so many different modalities that are accessible, mostly. And everybody I feel like can find some things some some way to kind of plug into that he healing place for themselves?
Blue
Yeah, yeah. I love yeah, there it I was like to say like nothing is too simple. Like no actor inaction is too simple. And it sort of parallels you know how our lifetimes are built in days, right? It’s like, it’s actually those little simple things that change the world, our worlds, and then the worlds around us and so on. So I think it might be helpful to get a little more concrete, like, what are some examples? What are some ways that we can bring rests into our lives?
That’s a great question. And I feel like I can offer what’s worked for me. And for me, clutter is like my kryptonite. So whether that’s emotional clutter, whether that’s paper clutter, anybody with a pre K kid will tell you, you might die it from paper, it’s a thing. I feel like. So we said emotional clutter, paper clutter, physical clutter, also clutter in our central nervous systems, right? We’ve got a lot of hormones going through our bodies and a lot of things processes that are happening, right. So there’s a lot of ways in which we can reduce clutter in our worlds. I just recently came off all social media, which has had a very interesting response from people. I like, nothing bad happened. It wasn’t like, Oh, I saw somebody make some comment. It’s sent me like, it’s just that I was noticing, like, where am I putting my time? What am I doing with my time? And where is that? Not to? And again, back to the patriarchy, like, where’s the payoff? You know, and I still, like, this is the water right? So I’m, oh, I just, I want to be more connected to myself. As a big T trauma survivor, on multiple occasions, I, I have escaped my body, most of my life, most of my life, I have lived from the neck up or out there or through substance, or, you know, like I have been trying to get out of my body all of this time. And now I’m like, Oh, but wait, I do want to be in my body, I do want to notice those things that are going on my body has so much information that I ignored for years, like how do I reconnect back into that. And so, through doing a lot of that healing work, like I just realized, I want to reduce the ways in which I connect to others, I want it to be intentional, I don’t want it to be accidental. So I want to have my relationships on purpose, the first person I want to have that relationship is myself. Because I’ve done such a great job of abandoning her time and time again. So coming home and being present to like my, you know, my animal body, like this place that I have, that I get to live for however much longer I get to do that, like, holy shit, that’s kind of cool, like, so I really want to be here. And a lot of people were like, how are you going to work your business? How are you going to see, you know, pictures of so and so how are you going to, and it was like, there was this panic that I was leaving. And I was like, I can still do those things in other ways. And I will, you know, and, and I’m also going to find what’s really been important to me, because I’m gonna go to that, right. Like, I’m going to cultivate more of that. So I’m really going to have this space for that. So I went off social media to declutter my brain.
Blue
I’m currently like,
moving through my environment in my space and seeing like, Oh, what is it that’s not being purposeful? What do I have that somebody else might need that I may never use? And can I trust that if I, if I gift this item to somebody else that if and when I need one, there will be a possibility that I can have it again, right, like so. There’s just really this idea of like reducing down to what is the bare minimum that I need and I want because then I can pay attention to that programming that I have. I can pay attention to those negative messages or those ways in which I treat myself that are not kind. So I can make the changes so that my children don’t repeat the same, quote unquote, mistakes I’ve made, right? Like, there’s so many reasons that I feel like the rest and recovery piece is necessary. For me right now, in this moment in my life, and probably a lot of us are looking for permission to allow ourselves to rest or just to trust that, like, I know, when I should work, and when I should play. I know what the balance is what that looks like, for me, and I’m okay with that.
Blue
Mm hmm. Yeah, we will so many thoughts spinning around your speaking? Um, there is there’s this term running around right now called Quiet quitting. And if you’ve heard this, but haven’t
got into
Blue
it, right, I actually 100% support it. But the idea is that workers now are, you know, inflation has gone up wages have remained stagnant. And so workers are finding creative ways to and I would say, nourish themselves. You know, I know, you said like, the payoff, I think the way the word nourish like, what’s actually nourishing, because if I’m nourished, then I can, I can be generous, right? Then I can contribute to my community, my family, like, I can’t make it show up how I want to. Yeah, everyone benefits actually. So this quiet quitting is, of course, you know, employers are complaining that workers are only doing what their job description and exactly the hours on paper that they’re supposed to do. So workers are no longer going above and having lunch at their desk and working, staying late at the office to get things done or filling in for other people, or, you know, they’re just setting boundaries. Yeah,
holy shit, when I imagine us all being able to come from that place where we can do that, and we can tolerate the discomfort of those consequences, because that kept me from doing a lot of this a lot earlier, right? Like I, I, I could do the thing. I just didn’t want to deal with the consequence. And I think when we’re honest with ourselves, there are things where we’re like, oh, I want to do that thing. And I’m worried about what my mother will say, or I don’t want my kids to look bad, or I mean, like, they fill in the blank of whatever the thing is, that’s going to keep you from it. If we can sit with, if we can tolerate that discomfort, then we can get to that other side, to that place where we’re like, oh, okay, this is what it’s for. Like, I’m really enjoying this space now. But it, it’s hard to cross that threshold. You know, there’s a lot of intersectional things at play there. Again, race, your gender, your religion, your you, there’s so many things that come into play, that can keep us from really stepping into or through that discomfort to get to the place where we can rest. Where we can recover.
Blue
Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah. And I think it is, you know, you mentioned the word choice, kind of examining Well, what What are my choices? Because I don’t know about you here, but I hear this a lot from my clients like, well, but I don’t have a choice. I don’t have a choice. And it can definitely feel that way. And like you said, the consequences of certain choices can be very high. Right? It can be your life, right, your livelihood, it can be your dinner, right, your kids tomorrow, you know, so just like let’s recognize like, yeah, sometimes the options on the menu are very limited and pretty crazy.
Like, can you see a shit sandwich? Or right? But if I like right, I’m gonna take right because a little better, right?
Blue
But there’s, there is choice everywhere. Everywhere we look for it. So I love this idea of like, almost like going on a scavenger hunt. Like where? Where are the the little, the little, the choices I might have overlooked. Like, where’s the little things I’m just defaulting. So like when I get home from work, do I have to go immediately into the home and start taking care of everyone? Hmm, maybe I don’t what happens if I don’t? Or do I like, Huh? Do I have to be the one who does a certain task? Does it have to be me that makes sure this happens. Right. I’ll, so I’ll share just one existence, kind of a simple one. But I realized in my marriage that I’ve defaulted to being the one who prepares all of the food for everyone. And I’m really good cook. I it’s been a creative outlet for me, like, I enjoy it. So at first, it was like, it made sense. Because we’re all going to eat more and better when I make something delicious. And, and then at some point, I realized that I was just really becoming resentful. Like, oh, this is obligation. It’s been a lot of years of this, as our family grows. Yeah, yeah. Often I’ve lived in community. So I’m just like, now I’m feeling like a line cook. Not my dream, no offense to like, hey, like, not my dream, right? And consuming more energy than it’s giving me time. And so I just one night, set my family down and said, I resign, I will not be doing this job anymore. So let’s have a discussion about how everyone can still eat as mom quits. And, and it wasn’t like a result, everything in that one conversation. But, but over time, the ball rolling, right, we started to make some plan and rotate responsibilities and have a night where we would get a pizza or something, you know, or just try, you know, certain nights, like make a whole lot of soup, and just be like, we’re gonna have soup for three days, like, that’s what we’re doing. Or, guess what, we’re gonna make a huge batch of granola. And that is what is for lunch all week, like whatever we needed to do so. So now I live in a community where we’ve carried that forth, and there are seven of us that live together. So there’s seven days in a week, and we rotate, we have teenagers who need some assistance with the meal. But we have some ground rules, like there has to be a vegetable, there has to be some kind of protein. And no one’s allowed to complain. So you really get to make up whatever you want. So that your you can enjoy it, too. So that’s been a huge, you know, sometimes we fill in for each other and other things come up. Certainly life is messy. But it no longer feels like I owe there. There’s a bit of brain space that I got to reclaim. Yeah, every morning, I would wake up like, What is everyone going to eat today? And now I have two days a week where I have that fun?
I had some amazing. Yeah, that has to feel so good. Right? Like just and I’m sure that was not an easy conversation to have. And I’m sure that there were reactions and natural consequences for you saying, I’m not doing this, right. Because let’s face it, people don’t always like our decision. And it for sure, wow. But how much better off are you? And that is one of the reasons that I feel like having coaches and therapists on my team for most of my life. That’s why I’m standing at this place at 47. It could have looked very different had I not shown up and done that type of work over and over and over and over. And one of the things that has been so helpful is to have someone with me to be witnessed and all of that because I think sometimes it feels like we show up in in the world when we show up in our world, that it’s hard to shed some of these expectations we have for ourselves or that we have for others because those operating systems are operating. And so it’s kind of hard to break that pattern just inside. That’s not to say that it can’t be done but I prefer somebody holding my hand like and not even necessarily saying anything but I’m witnessing that journey, right? Which is why as I step more into the rest and recovery, that’s continues to be a piece for me. And also being in community with other people who want to make change. Or if being in community is hard, you maybe don’t have a group that you feel like you really connected to, then there are ways to do that through technology, right? So I’m just so grateful that I’ve come to a place where I understand like, oh, life, yeah, it’s, um, it’s not going to be happy all the time. This was one of the gifts my parents gave me was the, the fallacy that like happiness is like the thing, right? Because I feel like a lot of us are chasing happiness, and we miss the moments where like, things aren’t quite right, or don’t feel good or aren’t happy, right, we miss all that time. And it’s in that space. And it doesn’t always feel great, but it’s in that space where like, I’ve felt like I’ve been the most connected to myself or to others, or that I’ve been most in integrity or alignment, you know, however you want to phrase that. So while I do look for things that make me happy, and I do want to be in my pleasure, I understand that that is not the pursuit of my life, the pursuit of my life is to sit with what is, is to look at the ways in which the world says I should or shouldn’t do those things, you know what I mean? And like, make my own way in the world, like, Yeah, I’m of this world, I have to live here, there are certain things that I have to do to operate as a citizen, because that’s how a society is organized. But that doesn’t mean that I have to let that organization that structure that patriarchy, the white supremacy, like all the things that go into that I don’t have to feed that I can actually unplug and disconnect from that in ways that are healthy, I can encourage other people to remove themselves from those systems, right and to, to live kind of, on the outside of that, knowing that like, I’ve been super uncomfortable. But I haven’t died. Like, I’ve survived all the things. And now just like you are not making breakfast every day, or thinking about food every day, and you’ve cleared that space for yourself. I’ve also cleared space within myself to be able to have that conversation of like, what are all the things you feel like you have to do today?
Can you not do them? Because you don’t want to operate like that. That’s not where you find your bliss is by pushing yourself through things. So like, having that conversation with myself is something that I couldn’t really do, because I’d never had anybody teach me to question that.
Blue
Yeah, I really appreciate how you keep tying it back to community, our need for each other. Because I think a lot of like, the spaces that we’re in, in the coaching world anyway, it’s a lot of like, even we were just talking about, you know, you have choices. So okay, now it’s your responsibility, right? You choose a better choice. Why don’t you get embodied already? Like,
oh, why don’t shave only? And crap comes with that? Yeah, it’s so harmful. And one of the things that has kind of become my mantra is like, Where can I do the least harm? How can I do the least harm? over my lifetime? I’ve had a lot of trauma. And I’ve come from that trauma response, and I have hurt other people. And I am not saying that. I have had behaviors that that have just not been the way I want to just show up, right. And as I created space to heal that trauma, I was no longer hurting people because I wasn’t coming from that place and I wasn’t having a strong reaction or whatever. And so that piece of things for me is like how can I do the least amount of harm? How can I show up in ways that are least harmful? So I’ve done a lot of work around that. I’m going to continue to do a lot of work around that. I will Gonna be called out on work around that. I mean, nobody likes being called out. And also listen, if I do something harmful in the world, I want to know. And I will do the things that I can do to make that situation better. And to eliminate that situation in the future. But that’s, that’s a big piece for me. And in doing a lot of this deep inner work and resting and recovering has allowed me to I is allowed me to be a better coach, a better friend, a better mentor a better, like, in every role I have in how I show up for people in this world, I am a better person, because of the fact I am doing the work to reduce harm, and I am doing the rest. And I can’t wait to really more fully support more women and non binary people in this place of what it looks like to come into your own rhythms to come into your own place around rest and recovery, to choose like, as much as we can, how we spend our time. And to look at the ways in which we can create more space.
Blue
Yeah, yeah. I, you know, I often ask on this podcast, what is your definition of success? But I want to ask you what your definition of rest is, like, we keep talking about rest. But what does that mean? Because like, I know, you’re not literally sitting in bed all day?
No, although I do have a wild fucking love affair with my bed. So yes, I would like to spend more time in it. However, I am not I am in the world, right doing things. So I love that you’re asking this question. Because what I think sometimes our go to when we think about rest is like this state of inaction. And when I think about rest, I think about rest as a way to be engaged in something like, connected into my breathing, doing things at a pace that’s desirable. Right, like, Okay, so maybe I need to clean the kitchen. But do I have to clean it super fast? No. Like, I mean, can I turn on some music and do some dancing while I’m cleaning? Like, how can I make it the best experience that takes the least for me to do. So it’s not about not doing, but it’s about doing in a way that feels life giving that feels like, oh, okay, this, I can feel this rhythm and I can enjoy it, even if it’s a thing I don’t like to do. Yeah. And I, I am a bad person to parent because I’ve pushed back. So even when I’m parenting myself myself as pushing back. So it’s like, you know, I’m like, Okay, well, you could do this thing. And you could do it in this way. And I’m like, I don’t want to you know, it’s like my inner my inner toddler is having a meltdown. Like, and then I can sit with that and kick my feet for a little while. And then I’m like, okay, but really, I guess I am going to do that thing. So if I’m going to do that thing, I’m going to do it this way. Right? But really finding that place of like, that sweet spot in action that feels life giving, like it’s filling us up instead of depleting us or taking away?
Blue
Yeah, yeah. I love it. I just as you’ve been sharing, I’ve been sort of collecting, jotting down some notes like if I was going to write a recipe for rest, but I heard that some ingredients so far. Yeah, is. One is to, to have a witness. So someone who is outside of your life, I’m filling in sort of what I see as that witness and what I’ve experienced as that witness and so helpful. Yeah, someone who doesn’t have a stake in my day to day life. And someone who can help me see what’s actually good for me and alignment with me more clearly. And that might be by reminding me it might be just listening. There might be offering some things to try on, but it’s certainly not like they have my answers. All right. So having the witness and then beginning the day with some good questions for self. So taking some time to tune in and go, Hmm, what do I need to do today? And do I really need to do those things? Right? Like, kind of push back bring out that
really does need to be done. Like you said earlier? Do I have to do it? Can somebody else do it? It’s about, it’s literally taking that box, right? And like flipping it on all the sides and trying to figure out like, all the ways and then making that choice.
Blue
Yeah, yeah. And then another question I heard in there was, how can I do the least harm. And then, throughout the day, remembering the option to do things in a way that’s life giving. So really, that requires listening to your own rhythm that requires space for the part of you that has all kinds of different feelings about the task. Yeah, and it might be one day dancing in the kitchen feels great. Another day, that’s not going to do it. Right, allowing space for that. So there’s, I just hear a lot of flexibility, internal flexibility being the most important part, right? Because we can have all the privilege and out word flexibility we want. I know many people who do. But the internal rigidity doesn’t allow, like feeling any of that out. So I know we all have different degrees of our flexibility. But I just want to highlight like there is this, the interval is actually the most important place of flexibility. Yep,
I agree with that. I agree with that. 100%. And for me, what that has meant to even just get to a place where I could hear that voice or listen to that, you know, I talked about the trauma and how disconnected I’ve been from my body, and how much work it’s been for me to get back in my body, because I tend to be very empathetic. And so the energy I’m around really impacts my central nervous system, the pace, you know, if something is fast, fast, fast, fast, that really, there’s so many things that will quote unquote, kind of AMP me up or get me charged or whatever word you want to use some people like triggering, but it beckons a response, right? Like, something happens. And then it beckons this response. And in order to even hear that I have spent over two years in daily meditation, I try and get outside every day, put my feet in the earth, like I know noise, like people talking over me, like I have children who will typically sit like they’ll put me in the middle, and then they’ll both be talking and it makes my brain want to melt like, I’ve really had to go strip so far down to just basics of sitting and breathing. And then going, Oh, okay, I don’t I feel kind of numb, I don’t know that I have access into that space in my body. And so then putting conscious awareness around like, Okay, we’ll let me feel this part of my body or that part of my body? And what does that feel like? And just moving in my body, right? And trying to like, the body has so much information. And I feel like I’ve ignored it for so long that I’m just kind of coming back into balance, right? Like, I went so far, one way and then I went so far into my body the other way. And now I’m kind of like coming back into this middle place of like, where’s that flow or rhythm gonna serve me best? And how do I do that. But for me, it’s really about like cutting the noise or the clutter way back. So I can hear it myself. So that I can share it with a coach or a therapist or mentor or a friend you know, where I can then translate that into making a different choice next time if that’s what I’d like to do or reinforcing a choice that I made that was hard that I’m I want to continue to do in the future. So, and again, all of this comes from a place of like, really pushing back on what we hear about what it means to be alive. If and how we’re supposed to be doing things or you know, whatever, and really pushing back all of that messaging, and stripping down to like, where do I want to put my time? How do I want to show up in the world and really finding ways to support that? Yeah. But we can’t do it if we’re so busy, or if there’s so much clutter, or if we’re, it’s so loud, we can’t hear ourselves think.
Blue
Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I think I really hear in that, like learning to be your own witness. And there’s lots of lots of tools to help with that. Yeah. I was trying to remember the name of a book, but I picked I was reading a book at your house. Oh, I love that. And it was on your shelf. It was something like, do nothing or oh, how
to do nothing.
Blue
Yeah, I think so. Yeah. And I really, just, I’ll just share, I spent some time at Melissa’s house while she was gone, she and her family were gone. Just by myself. It was like this beautiful solo. Time in in her space, which feels like you feel I mean, it was like, yeah, like, there’s intention, like there’s breath happening here every day. Yeah, and I spotted this book. And I was like, Oh, this is because I’m like, I feel like what should I do right now? Like, it’s I don’t have kids to look after like, like, Oh, let me read a book to remind myself, it’s okay to do nothing. So yeah, so it could be a book, it could be, you know, certainly there’s all kinds of things online that can become rabbit holes, but but if you really seek out like, particular podcasts, I’m hoping this podcast is sort of opening possibilities for listeners. So if it is keep listening to this one, there’s lots of other episodes. There’s one, how lazy as a lie. So that could be a really good one. If you haven’t heard it yet. Listen to next. Or, you know, in the show notes, I’ll put some other a couple other podcasts, including Alyssa. So there’s definitely places where you can kind of tunnel in and just have the Internet work for you. As opposed to, it takes a lot of effort. I’m not going to say no shame if you get distracted. It’s
yeah, it’s like, you know, you’ve got to have some I have very little restraint sometimes. When it comes to like exploration of any like, I just like going down rabbit holes. I think it’s the Scorpio and me, you know, I’m just like, How deep can we go? Where are we going? And I like one thing to focus on, right? And so yeah, that can happen. And I love that you talked about there many ways that this is accessible, you know, libraries, for books, you podcasts, see, going to parks, being in nature, seeing art, like there’s so many ways to access, like that space where you can allow yourself to feel into your body and know do I need rest in this moment? Or do I need action in this moment? What’s going to really feel good to me? Yeah. And even that is an act of rebellion. As soon as you know, everything else is to like, what feels good. How dare I think about that?
Blue
What I’m handle feel good. My body
isn’t just for everybody else. I get to have like some feelings about it.
Blue
Yeah, yeah. So and what lots are with your toes. I mean, I that’s how I started. Really being in my body was just, gosh, like, just imagining each toe, like how does it feel right now? Which the first time I mean, there’s meditation teacher, I was like, You’re nuts. I don’t have separate feelings in my toes from each other. That’s a concern. But it really gets you to like pay attention. Right? Like, wait, maybe I do, do I? Oh, there actually is so different. What? Yeah. You know, of course, if if that feels safe. I mean, I want to acknowledge there’s definitely like whole body trauma, where that’s not the starting place for weight. But just to say that it can, it can start really simply, it can be kind of silly. You know, there’s nothing wrong with having it be playful. Like I hate because when did
we get so goddamn serious? Why can’t we get to a place I’m sure I just probably pissed a lot of people off by saying that, but it’s just I don’t understand, like I, my, my spirituality I believe in a playfulness, right, this creative, playful energy, who is not offended or afraid to fail or you know any of those things that we can just like, explore. And it doesn’t have to be so serious. And what if we do get it wrong? Great. Like, let’s get more stuff wrong, too. Let’s normalize that. Like, it’s okay for us to learn. That’s a part of the learning process. You know? It’s all there for us that richness? Yeah.
Blue
Yeah, really just getting to be the witness of like, Oh, what is? What did I just learned from that? Or? Well, gosh, yeah, I don’t want to do it that way. Again. So good to know. Right? Yeah.
And learn a lot about ourselves. And we learn a lot about people through their reaction to our failure or our mistake, or, you know, whenever?
Blue
Yeah, yeah. Awesome. Huh? Oh, my goodness, well, um, we’ll definitely have to record a bonus episode. But we do need to wrap up this one. Yes, any other thoughts or sensations or anything coming through that you want to share?
Yeah, so if you were listening to this, and if you were hearing these ideas about rest, and it felt challenging, or radical, or maybe difficult, or like something that somebody else you know, might do, but you might struggle with, I would just encourage you to reach out if this is something that your soul is longing for. I do work with private clients. I know you do. As well, there are so many great mentors and coaches and teachers and therapists and people out in the world. And you know, maybe I’m a good fit for you, maybe blue is a good fit for you, maybe somebody we know is a good fit for you. But if this is tugging on your heart, I would just ask you to sit with the idea that it’s worth exploring rest and recovery, it’s worth taking that time and space for yourself to process things that need to be processed to look at things differently to reimagine your life. Or imagine your life as something that you enjoy waking up to every morning, you know, and then making that a reality by taking those baby steps. Because it’s i We have one opportunity. And this body is my belief. I know there are other beliefs out there. And so I really want to have all the fullness of this experience, to the best of my capability. And that means that I’m going to keep asking for support. And I’m going to keep asking for rest. And I’m going to keep myself recovering so that I am available day after day after day. And so I’m not right.
Blue
Yeah, so where can people find you?
Right now. You can email me, Melissa M Elissa, at Vital v i t a l shift, s h i f t dot life li fe, so you can reach me via email. And I would love to hear from some of you. Any all of you how this was for you if something came up? That’s great. I would just love any feedback. And also I get no notifications. So no more dopamine hits. So please go ahead. Send me an email.
Blue
anytime day or night. Alyssa will look at it when she’s
no actually the here’s another thing I do. Do Not Disturb on my phone. But I do get back to people within 24 business hours. So
Blue
beautiful. Yeah, I love how personally I’ve never had a guest on who offers such a personal like that’s your email like you are going to answer that email.
I am going to answer that. I’m the same way helping me it’s just directed to your direct connect.
Blue
Beautiful, beautiful. Well we’ll we’ll add that in and some of the resources we’ve met Jim here today over at a path of her own.com So you can get that easily. Thank you so much, Melissa. So nursing.
I so appreciate you. Thanks.
Blue
Thanks for listening today. I would love for you to join in on the conversation by following me on Instagram at a path of her own for more enriching dialogue. See you there