Business as Activism
With
Elijah Selby
This is an unedited transcript:
Blue
Welcome to a very special episode of a path of her own. As you may know, I usually interview women on this podcast who inspire me with their creative life paths, paths that are outside of the norm outside of expectation, and definitely confronting sort of our hustle culture. Today I is along those lines, but a little bit different format, in which I’m the one being interviewed. I was really honored to be asked to be a part of a brand new podcast that’s called business as activism. What a great name right business’s activism. It’s created by my good friend and founder of feminine rising Elijah Selby, if you’ve been a listener of a path of her own, for long enough, you may remember, Elijah was my very first guest. So if you want more of her after you hear this dialogue, you can find her earlier in a path of her own. And also on her new podcast, of course, we had an amazing conversation, I think you’re really going to enjoy about not only business, but how we got to this place where business is done in the way that it is. So we got into history, we looked globally. And we also brought it home with some really practical things that we can do. We looked at our personal power as well as our collective power to make those changes. I think you’re really going to enjoy it. And if you have a moment, I’d love to hear what you think.
Elijah Selby
Hi, everybody, and welcome to the business as activism Podcast. I’m Elijah Selby, your host. And I’m coming to you today from the unceded territory of the Rami touche Aloni Indians, which we in Western culture know as San Francisco. And I am super, super, super excited about our conversation today. I know I am all the time excited, but this one’s particularly special. It’s a dear friend of mine. I’m here with a woman named Blue Ross. And she is one of the most amazing humans on the planet. She is a Master master coach. And she works with women so that she helps them find their path so that they can you know have a kick ass life although I pretty sure kick ass is my term. I’m not sure she’d use those words. But Blue Welcome. I’m so happy you’re here. And I’m really excited to have our conversation.
Blue
Oh, thank you so much for having me. I just anytime we get to have a conversation, I feel energized and inspired. And I’m so glad you’re doing this podcast so more people can hear the kinds of dialogues that you have.
Elijah Selby
Thank you right back at you. She has an amazing podcast podcast called a path of her own FYI, we can link that in the in the in the podcast notes. Yeah, so here we are blue and I have known each other for a very long time we we trained as coaches together many years ago, I think 2013 2014 and have had a lot of these conversations around patriarchy around feminism around how do we do business in a way that feels like we’re in integrity and aligned, what feels yucky about the ways we’re doing business? What does that look like? And you know, sometimes the conversation is really about, like, what feels yucky. And then it can be a much more sophisticated conversation as well. So
Blue
thinking about
Elijah Selby
in a broad sense, I actually want to just let’s start in the broadest sense, you know, how living under a patriarchal structure affects the way we do business like what do you see as some of the ways like not just solopreneurs either even but like how businesses think of things and and down to how solopreneurs might think of things like what’s how what’s the lens we see things through or what are some of the things we feel like our truth but they’re really just beliefs and we can change his beliefs.
Blue
So yeah, yeah, totally. And we we have been in trainings together right where it shows up specifically for us as coaches but I love this like Whoa, looks like balloon out larger, like, what are the things that are? Just like you might say the air that we breathe? Yes. I say that yes. Oh, we’re like, this is the thing. And the first thing that I think one of the biggest umbrellas that comes to mind is that growth equals success. Growth. Yes, at any cost, oh my god, it doesn’t matter. This being becoming bigger, bigger, bigger, which is completely unnatural. Like, nothing just grows, like look around our natural world, right? There’s literally nothing that just grows indefinitely. If there is a time, you know, there are different seasons, there’s different phases and stages in like their cycles of life. And so this idea that somehow we can create this thing we call economy that is centered around constant growth if you’re not growing your family.
Elijah Selby
Oh, my gosh, okay. So I want to, I want to break this down, because so I can sort of put myself in that stream of thought, like, Well, what do you like? I’m playing devil’s advocate a little bit like, okay, of course, success equals growth. What else could it equal? Like? How else can we think of success? I just think it’s like, again, it’s one of those things we’re so plugged into, it feels like truth. And so let’s actually let’s look at two things like I want to get into like, what else could equal but first, let’s look at let’s talk about, how does that notion that success equals growth? How does that cause harm?
Blue
Well, like I mentioned, it’s at any cost, right? So we really look up to people who have a lot of money. But we are not interested in how they made it.
Elijah Selby
Right? No, it’s about the money. Right?
Blue
So there, there are all these, you know, financial courses that may have some value, but I think they a common thread through most of them is this idea, like, you work hard, you’re gonna make more money, you’re going to be more successful. But when we look at where wealth lives, the opposite is true. It’s actually can you leverage other people’s labor? That’s how you grow a business. And let me be clear, too. I’m not talking about personal growth. Right, like, Right,
Elijah Selby
totally. Yeah.
Blue
An internal job that?
Elijah Selby
No, we’re talking about economic growth, we’re talking about money.
Blue
Getting bigger. How many?
Elijah Selby
How many widgets? Are we shipping out? How, how many clients? Are we bringing in? How much are we making more money than last year? Are we making more money than last month? are we expanding? Our is our is our email list growing? Like, actually, I mean, there could be so many different layers of that. So some of the things that I think of so it’s like, yeah, that it’s like we look at people and we admire people that have money. And it is because hit you know, money’s nice, but never deny that we want to pay our bills. I don’t want people to be poor, I don’t want to be poor. I want people to be able to pay their bills. And actually, I would like people to be able to go on vacation. And you know, all the things. Yes, food, health care, important things. So the thing that you know, the growth, at any cost, is some of the things I see in a broad sense are that human resources? Well, first of all, just seen as resources, right? And my mind’s going to a million different places, because then I’m thinking about how like, so you know, I have my paradigms of the patriarchy. So one of my paradigms of the patriarchy is, is I don’t have it written out in front me. So it’s like something to the effect of like, men, like, own and treat women in the way they think of that they own and treat the Earth, which is Hmm, it is here to do with as I please. I will rape and pillage the earth. I will take everything from it for my use. And that’s my right, without any thought to consequences. And I know that that statement sounds extreme, but I actually think it’s so we can see evidence of that everywhere. Mm hmm. And yeah, yeah,
Blue
I think it’s it’s like, at at any cost, right is is there’s this false idea that the economy is somehow you have to choose between the economy and the environment, right like that. They’re at odds with one another. Rather than that, Being a part of one and like, integrated into another. This is just like a, we’re not even aware that we’re thinking that, but like, I just got solar panels put on my house, which is so exciting. I switched it on, like two days ago.
Elijah Selby
So cool. Awesome. Yeah, I love that. It’s great.
Blue
And, and I have some other thoughts about that I’ll get back to in a moment. But I so we’re excited to do this right. And the first question people ask always is like, Well, I mean, it’s a big cost. So does it make sense financially? Like, there’s some question about the financing of the solar panels, which is not, I’m not like mad at anybody about it. You know, obviously, it’s a big investment. So it’s not it, there’s no place for that question. But it is the first and usually the only question asked, right, right. And it’s like, wow, no, I think that really gets to this like subconscious thing that we have. In US that’s like, well, if I’m going to choose something, first and foremost, it needs to be make economic sense. So like the environmental things, like aside, it’s also good for that. Cool,
Elijah Selby
right? Right. Right. And then I just think of like, okay, that is how capitalism is set up to, then we just, it’s like, yes, we’re screwed, kind of like, and in some ways, it’s like, we have to think of the finances of it, because we have bills to pay. Right? And because that’s the focus of our culture and world. That’s so interesting, because I will just share that Scott night, my husband, Scott and I have talked about getting solar panels, and it is something I really want to do. And Scott, who is a scientist, whenever we talk about he also wants to do it. We haven’t done it yet. Because he talks about the economics of it, and like, when will it pay off for it? So this is something he likes to figure out? When will it pay off? Like make sense, you know, what a pay off itself or whatever expression that is. And so I love this, because I’m going to bring this up to him. Because I mean, he’s going to this is because I haven’t thought to say that blue. And again, this is such an example of well, even though I think about this stuff all the time. And I turn it over and look at it from all different angles, I still don’t see all the angles, I still don’t see all the things at all. So
Blue
we’re just here in this air breathing it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I’ll say one thing, in terms of the economics of solar panels.
Elijah Selby
Okay. Yeah, let’s, we all want to know,
Blue
there is actually like it, it does, actually, there’s enough solid evidence now that it increases the value of a home. So if you own a home, put solar panels on it, it increases the value of your home by an average of 14%. So it’s actually it’s big. So in terms of like, will it make money in itself? We do all kinds of expensive things to houses, knowing in our minds, right. The home is an investment. That’s right, which is a part of that just the way we structured things show that actually make sense of a house that’s worth a million dollars. Like that’s crazy craziness.
Elijah Selby
It is crazy.
Blue
Yeah. You know, yeah, yeah. Part of the thing. So. Yep. I will say the thing. You know, you mentioned like, instead of that, like, what what other lens can be where I see it as is something life giving? And to what level? Is it life giving? So, like you said, we got to eat, we got a we live in this economy was made up, it’s where we live we
Elijah Selby
have together right, or it doesn’t help to deny it. Yeah.
Blue
Although, you know, certainly there are people tapping out in whatever way they can. But that’s true, not to say that money is bad, or only used to abuse people or something like that, or the cumulative, right. accumulation of wealth is always negative. But it’s like, the question for me needs to become is this life giving? Is it contributive to life? Or is it not? Is it the opposite? Is it harmful? Is it causing harm? Is it causing? Yes. Is it causing destruction? Is it making it so we can’t inhabit our planet? In Yeah, or why is that not a question?
Elijah Selby
Why is that not a question? Yeah. And so it oh my gosh, again, I love having these conversations with you because my mind’s going everywhere and I and I’m just going into the, you know, there’s these places that we call masculine and feminine. Yin and Yang, whatever language we want to put to it right there. There’s these ideals that we’ve labeled masculine and feminine.
And
Elijah Selby
see Talking about causing harm? Or does it give life that’s under the feminine? Which in our current culture is derided. Right? Right. It’s like, That’s not important. That’s fluff. That’s soft. Right? Like, don’t go soft. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s, uh, yeah, I mean, either you win or you lose, right? So that’s not something to think about.
Blue
Interesting. LIFE GIVING is.
Elijah Selby
Right? I mean, right? It just shows you how perverted things have gotten.
Blue
Anyone who’s listening? Have you ever given birth or witnessed birth?
Elijah Selby
I mean, were you born? I don’t listen, it’s not a soft experience. at all, no, no, no. And also like, birth is. I mean, there’s nothing else that’s like, that’s the foundation of everything. Without it. We’re not here. Sort of like beginning and end of sentence. So?
Blue
Yeah. Yeah. Just like our planet. So how is that a secondary thoughts? Right? Now, this brings me to another thought around this juxtaposition of personal responsibility. And yet, like corporations, shirking responsibility, oh, there’s no, like, how the hell do?
Elijah Selby
How do we do it? Again, and I’m just thinking of, like, mindsets like the mindset of the CFO and the CEO or whatever, because they have a board to report to and because success is equals growth, success equals growth, right? So these are all the we’re like, just putting bricks into a wall here, like, and they can’t, it’s like when I imagined that, you know, when they think of how they’re making decisions. None of these, like, these are not the questions they ask. It’s like, so narrow, right? It’s so. So it’s like horse blinders on, which is not a good thing, because you cannot see anything else. But what’s in front of you. And if what’s in front of you is, you know, how do I show a profit and make money for my stockholders? And then, like, nothing else is on the table? Mm
Blue
hmm. Yeah. This, this, this man that I was in college with, I didn’t I didn’t know him very well. But he, you know, was like, this was in Phoenix area. And so there’s lots of highways and things and there’s a carpool lane, in the highway, right. And so he would be commuting on the highway. He would always use the carpool lane, because it’s the quickest lane. But he was driving himself, right? He did, right. Okay. Like on purpose, he would just go in that lane, which is like anything, but what he actually said about it. Because this is like, he would get pulled over about once a month, you get caught? And I was like, how are you? Why, what? And he said, Oh, I think of it like it’s the fee to use the lane. And it just like really stuck. In the end. He is someone who came from and had a lot of wealth. Right? So for him, it was like, Oh, you just it’s you doing business a part of the path to fastness? Right. Yeah.
Elijah Selby
Right. There’s no respect. There’s it’s only thinking of him. Yes. Fascinating. Fascinating. Okay. So thinking about mindset, thinking about like, the broad brushstrokes of of how we do business and how that causes harm. And we were just talking about the, like, different questions we can ask like, and one really powerful question is, does this bring life or does this harm. And so I’m reading a book right now called emergent strategy, which I highly recommend to everybody. And it’s by a woman named Adrian Marie Brown, and she’s brilliant and interesting. And because I’m still reading it, I’m not going to be able to like, be super brilliant about it. But one of the things she talks about in the book is this, you know, if we’re going to change things, so it’s really hard for people to imagine things being different. Because of what we’ve already mentioned, first of all, it feels like truth. Success equals growth that feels like truth. It doesn’t feel like a belief. It doesn’t. It’s so hard. Imagine a different way or another concept like decentralized leadership, again, really hard for us to imagine. It is not what we witness or experience in this world at all. It seems super, like really, like even myself, like, how does that work? Right?
Blue
Sort of justice, restorative justice, right?
Elijah Selby
There’s so many. So her thing is, like, it’s so important for people like us, and like those of you listening to do things differently. So that we can like insert that into the imagination of like, a greater population, that when people see how it’s done, they can then imagine it. So there always has to be some people that are willing to take the lead, and work it out. Because we are kind of, you know, building the plane as we’re flying here. Like we don’t I always say we, you know, we don’t know what we’re growing into, we just know, hopefully, it’s going to be a dismantle systems of oppression and causeless, and a more just society that causes less harm, hopefully, to the all living things on the planet, right? I mean, yeah, but what that looks like, I think, is like, we’re just planting the seeds. Now. We don’t know exactly what those seeds are gonna grow into. So emergent strategy, yeah, that like, like that. Get, you know, being able to create a different way of doing things and showing people that it works. And I’m not gonna use the word successful. I almost said to people that are successful, but showing people that it works, and it works well. And like that people are happy, and they feel more fulfilled, and that the mission of the company is actually been accomplished, and, you know, things like that, that it infuses into the world that, like, new possibility, and, and we can probably, you know, have if we thought for a minute, think of examples of that, like things that we’ve witnessed in our lifetime, how things have changed. Because some people are willing
Blue
to do it. Yeah, I mean, I think like this podcast. You know, I don’t know about you, but like, 20 years ago, I couldn’t imagine hosting my own sort of radio station. Yeah. Oh, my gosh, yeah. Well, like it. We are having the technology in my home to record this. Like, you and I are both in our homes right now.
Elijah Selby
Right. So, like, in different places on the planet? Oh, yeah.
Blue
Imagine that that’s possible. And effectively paint that picture for enough people to for it to happen. Ah,
Elijah Selby
I love that idea. I Yeah. Oh, my gosh, it is really mind blowing, because 20 years ago, so what was that? 2002? Yeah, it was a different world. I remember actually, when I lived in New York City.
Elijah Selby
So when I lived in New York City, and cell phones just came out, or they had been out actually, for a little while, but sort of knew they were sort of new there was there was only flip phones. Let’s put it that way. Like there was no, there was nothing like a smartphone. And I had a friend that had gone to Israel and come back and we went to dinner one night and just for chatting, she’s like, you’re not going to believe it. It’s so weird. Like, you walk down the street in Israel, and everybody’s on their phone. Like they’re just walking down the street talking on the phone. And I was like, That’s so weird. Like how that just couldn’t imagine it. Because that wasn’t happening yet. And like within six months, that’s what what I was witnessing, right. But and then I think another really good example though, if we’re looking at like businesses, Korea, creating change is plastic bag use at grocery stores. Whereas like, small independent markets, where like, we’re not having plastic bags, you’re gonna have to bring your own bags. And at first it was like, even for people that care. It was like, Oh, how what, okay, I have to figure this out now, and I can remember my bags and pillows, and then like, you just remember your bags, and then it’s fine. And then now at least in California, we was it’s we don’t want to misspeak, but I’m pretty sure we have a statewide law that you can’t use plastic bags, although I might be wrong. It might be county or city. I’m not sure. But it’s certainly in San Francisco. And it’s like not anything I think about anymore. This has been going on for years. Like I I never think about that. So how people you know, it was like an example of like this. You can see how it got done. Right?
Blue
Yeah. Yeah. And I think especially around plastics, I think a lot about this sort of, I mean week There was a very effective campaign to convince us that we are individually responsible. Mm hmm. Which is not untrue. I mean, we bear some responsibility, certainly, but, but it’s like it. There were companies that specifically did marketing, to teach us to train us that it’s our fault, and did nothing else to do. So if you look at like, Okay, I bring, I bring my own bags to the grocery store every day. It’s a habit now. Here, I’m in Arizona, in the north on Disneyland, and we don’t have any sort of, there’s plastic bags. I bring my own bags, I see more and more people doing that. And it makes me feel good. But then I’m there at the store. And I’m noticing like, Well, how was all this stuff shipped here? But is it packaged in? There’s just a ton of plastic way wasted. That has nothing to do with my
Elijah Selby
personal use.
Blue
Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, it’s not. And I also grapple with like, okay, that’s true. And it’s not that I’m powerless. Right.
Elijah Selby
Now, we’re not powerless. And in fact, yeah, go ahead. No, go ahead.
Blue
I can’t, like, I’m not as a as a personal person. Like, I alone, I can turn the water off. When I brush my teeth. I can do like that as gestures, right? But at the end of the day, if there isn’t a shift in business, that is right. I alone in my little habits in my little corner of the world, I am not going to do anything about climate change.
Elijah Selby
Right. Okay. So I love that you said that. So I was just talking about this the other day, so years ago, I read an article in The Atlantic Monthly about. So as to my best My memory was an opinion piece. But maybe it wasn’t an independent piece, it was a piece on on how big shifts get made in order to solve community problems. And so the example that this author gave was the ozone layer. And so community meaning global community, in this case, right, but speaking just for the US, because I cannot speak for other countries, I know what we did is the ozone hole was like this problem, this problem, this problem, people were everybody’s freaked out, it kept growing. And then finally laws were passed and the flow of fluorocarbons that were used, and all the different things that were contributing to the whole, were banned. And to the best of my knowledge, I think I actually just read that it hasn’t grown, since it’s not like there’s still a hole, but we stopped maybe total disaster from happening. But the point of the article is, this, this is how change like that occurs. When there’s political will, corporate will and the will of the people when those things align, things change. And they change very quickly. So in the article, like he gave this timeline like, and it was like, wow, yeah, things changed really quickly, once those three things aligned. And then I was thinking about this a little bit more about like power, I’m just thinking of like, where’s our power, and politicians look to the will of the people because they want to get reelected. So we have power there. Corporations look to the will of the people because they want to make money. So we have power there. So really, when we think about it, even though we’re told all the time that we have no power and certainly feel powerless in this world, we hold all the power, so can be really harnessed. This is my positive thought of the day like we are so powerful. Let’s get out there and change it. It is true. And I know I’m simplifying by the way.
Blue
And that’s why so much money is invested in me manipulating us because of that, because you’re what you’re saying exactly true. I saw some footage recently of I know, love so many of us are watching what’s happening in Ukraine at this moment here in early March. And so I was watching a thing that where the people were in the streets, and there were tanks that were coming toward them and they just flooded the streets and the tanks turned Round and left. So, I mean, obviously, forever wasn’t the end of the war or invasion. But, but just that imagery is such a powerful reminder of the power that we possess, especially when we come together. So much more in common. And were manipulated to believe.
Elijah Selby
Agreed. We do. Thank God. Yeah. Yeah. Ah, thank you. That is a really powerful image.
Blue
Thank you. Yeah. And I really, I think about a lot of a book I’m reading right now. Unsettling truths, and it’s by Mark Charles, and I’m forgetting the other co authors name right now, but I think that’s enough to find the book. Okay. Not I’m not so familiar with the other author, which is why remember Mark Charles named more readily. But they are both ministers, Christian ministers, and one is one is actually Navajo Denae. And the other one. I can’t remember he, his family immigrated from somewhere.
Elijah Selby
I will tell you the name just soon chan Ra, if I’m saying his name correctly, yes,
Blue
soon.
Elijah Selby
Chandra. Yeah.
Blue
They they wrote this book about sort of the doctrine of discovery and how and the founding of the United States, right, and the how it informs the way that we were founded, and how we do things, how we, as a result, how we do business, how we do life as a result, that and it’s at once a horrifying, you know, because this doctrine is like, white Christian men are given, like, God has decided that they are the ones who are in charge of everything, everything is for them, like you were saying, women, the planet, you know, it’s,
Elijah Selby
it’s really realized people are marginalized people, anybody that’s not white Christian male. Yeah.
Blue
Foundational doctrine. From a pope.
Elijah Selby
Is it really there was like, actually something called the doctrine of discovery that a pope put out there
Blue
writing? Yes. Wow. And this is like a fountain, not the only foundation, but certainly a key foundational piece in the current White supremacist patriarchy that we live in. And so this, but I’m only a little bit into it. So I don’t I’m not sure where it’s going.
Elijah Selby
But what I’m taking so far already so good that what you’re sharing so yeah,
Blue
so so far, what I’m getting from it, is it? Yes, it informs so much of our life. And also to note like, oh, there’s a group of people like it was a pretty small group of people that got together and actually decided this thing that changed the course of history. So like, what if we got together and wrote something really positive? Yeah, I love this. Moving forward.
Elijah Selby
Oh, that is really fascinating. Also, what occurred to me when you were saying that is like, whoa, because sometimes when I think like when we talk about the patriarchy, sometimes I’ll say, oh, it’s not like there’s like a few men in charge, like designing the patriarchy as we go. But like, kind of there is I don’t know how, like globally conscious that is, but
Blue
wow. I don’t actually think that Pope was like the originator. But he’s certainly propelled that ideology. Big time.
Elijah Selby
Okay, and can I just like, go again, we’re just like, I love this conversation, because it’s all the things because then I’m just thinking about this. I don’t know what are we talking about? We’re talking about the patriarchy for sure. Which is a great conversation. nonetheless. So I was just thinking about you know, history of patriarchal ways of being and in Europe. So your European patriarchy, European white patriarchy, which is what the patriarchy we experience here, which is very based on the binary blah, blah, blah. But like started during the Reformation, I believe in England, no, in Europe, excuse me, I meant to say, where Christianity was starting to gain a foothold. Maybe it’s before the Reformation. So please, anybody listening, that’s a European history person. I probably got that wrong. But there’s this point in history where like Christian Church is starting to get a hold. And that is when we see the witch trials, for example, and there’s all these like this propaganda very specifically, a against women, they’re very conscious. And that’s where we have the idea of a witch. And that’s when the drawings of like a witch that has like warts on her nose and is ugly and maybe, you know, curled up in her butt like the skeleton is crooked and, you know, meaning her body. And very conscious Papa grant pop propaganda against women, essentially women healers, because those were the witches, right. And then also on the healing line, just thinking about eventually what they did is they passed laws that in order to practice any of the healing arts, you had to have gone to college. And of course, women were not allowed to go to college, and very few men could go as well. So it effectively took something that was so empowering to women and to the community, because then healing is provided to the community. On a different in a different way, right than a doctor than going to a doctor’s office. It’s like a whole different paradigm. And just like how, step by step by step, this idea of like women, as healers, also women as life givers, women, as midwives, and women as when women who are an equal part of this world and bringing things into this world is just like step by step degraded, degraded, degraded, degraded, and like how messed up messes people have been to sort of like, had like, what the? What the what, like, why did that even happen? Like it’s so nuts? Oh,
Blue
I feel certain Jesus did not approve.
Elijah Selby
I am 100%. Sorry. I am like, Yeah, I actually think Jesus was such a cool guy. I think we would have totally gotten along. I mean, Pharrell, I like, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because it’s just that is not about none of that’s about religion. That’s all about power. I mean, there’s, it’s anybody that says otherwise, it’s like, sort of weird because it’s so clear. It’s not about religion. It is about power. Yeah. Alright, so here we are power, growth, doctrine of discovery. And what we can see if I’m gonna just like start weaving a little through line is there such a MIDI helped me find the words for this blue, like, there’s, there’s such a? Well, it’s kind of goes back to me for that binary. Like, I’ve got to have mine. Either I win or I lose, there’s no in between, right. So that like, money, grab power grab. There’s not enough to share. There’s not enough to go around. Like, that’s such a pervasive, another pervasive idea, I think. Totally. Yeah. Culture and in our work and in our corporate institutions, and all of that. Yeah.
Blue
Yeah, like, only one person is going to get that promotion only once, that kind of business can really succeed.
Elijah Selby
Right? Growth Model. That’s right. Right. And also, like, I will slash and burn, in order to make it happen, because the goal is to win rates. So if I have to fire X amount of people, I don’t really care about their jobs, or their livelihoods, or their family, or the whatever, or if I have to make people work, you know, 15 hour, days, six days a week, I don’t really care, because this is about winning. So just like thinking of the concept of human resources, how, like, human resources are just treated as so disposable in our current culture. And you know, we’ve really seen, like, how women have suffered with COVID and work from home situations and the loss of jobs and the loss of career tracks. And that’s probably a whole other podcast episode. Yeah. Yeah,
Blue
yes. Yeah, well, and I, I see it like this. I’m sure there are differing opinions on this. But I also like to, when I’m thinking about big things, I like to bring it also to the like, Okay, what’s the what’s the thing for me to examine? Or what’s the thing for me to act on? So I love that there are so many. But one thing that comes to mind is I do I hear a lot of especially new coaches, healers, first of all, don’t even get off the ground. I know. Our our system is so set up for failure at so many levels. And and there’s like a lot of internal stuff too. You know, we we have, we do have this inherited I think fear of being burned. For one thing
Elijah Selby
or you’re legit, legit fear, frankly, like
Blue
appear as women in the world. Yep. And another thing that I see very commonly is like just looking for where you can pay people subpar wages right for you. I just want to speak to that because this makes me ill it every I have yet to be in a business training that did not overtly recommend doing this means when I’m pulling my hair out
Elijah Selby
I’m so so with you I’m so My blood is boiling just like yes this is I’m so with you keep going,
Blue
Oh, it’s just like, it just goes against what we’re working for which I believe is a better healed world. So why would I take advantage of someone to cause harm? Is my business life giving or not?
Elijah Selby
That’s the question. Amen. Sister. Yes. This idea of like, I need to, like, get out of somebody, everything I can for as little possible money. I’m not saying we can’t like, look and get quotes and decide what works for us and all of that. But like, when you’re turning the screws on purpose, and you’re really looking for the cheap, like, paying the less and getting the most it’s gross. It is just so gross. And I know there’s people out there that might be thinking, No, that’s smart. No, that is gross. It is yeah. Can we just gross?
Blue
We’re gonna stop doing that. Yeah, it’s gross. Yes. Being out there. Are you in? Yeah.
Elijah Selby
Are you in? sign the pledge? Maybe this is our doctrine we’re gonna write.
Blue
Because living wage please
Elijah Selby
wage please. Yeah, like living wage please. Your
Blue
wage supports not only your life, but mine. Here Exactly.
Elijah Selby
We make a better world by doing that. When we treat people with respect and as equals and as people who know how to do their job, and we pay them accordingly. And all of all the things treating treating people with respect. I mean, I’ve worked for some real divas in my lifetime. Let me tell you. That’s been interesting. My corporate experience. Yeah, yeah. All right.
Blue
I don’t even know. Yeah. So respect your people pay them? Well. You’re in this together, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And I’ll just say, I really just don’t. I mean, I understand it, but also like, it needs to stop this, like, anti union, anti, let’s talk about what the money that we’re making the money that we’re paying, like, yeah, we need desperately financial transparency, and we need desperately to be in it together. Those things. I’m not saying any group of people is perfect. Right? Sometimes people get together to organize and like, it’s a shit show. Yep. Can go. There are like, their intentions are so good, right? Like, that’s gonna happen. Like we’re figuring this out. All the odds are against us collaborating. So like, we’re gonna mess it up. But it’s so important that we keep doing it. And it’s so important that we support other people doing that, to a great degree industries in there, whatever that looks like for them. Oh, my God,
Elijah Selby
I so agree. I so agree. Okay,
Blue
I gotta say, Elijah, it is the strangest journey to be in business for 10 years. Now, this isn’t a decade of being in business. And really, at my heart being an anti capitalist. Yeah, that’s the thing. There’s no clear binary that doesn’t exist. There’s no caribiner. So there is I can inhabit both. You can.
Elijah Selby
So as Kelly dill says, like, when we’re changemakers and culture makers, we have to have one foot in this world, this this world in the way it exists, because we have to live I mean, that’s okay. We do not need to apologize for that. But then we have another foot in the world we’re creating it and that’s can be really challenging, but also like we really need to be give ourselves grace because that’s what we’re doing.
Blue
And
Elijah Selby
yeah, I want to have an entire podcast just about the binary because I think sets us up all the ways but, and clearly, I just we’re gonna have we’ll have to have another conversation because there’s more to talk about, but I feel like maybe this is a good place to start. To come to a close and for today and say hey guys write in and let us know what you think our doctrine should be about our unique the pledge to give like living wages, but blue before we go, will you let everybody know where they can find you?
Blue
Sure, absolutely. Well, you can listen to my podcast anywhere you listen to podcasts, it’s called a path of her own. And I interview amazing women there, including Elijah. Only listen to our episode over there. So far more of this. And also, you can find me at Blue rests.com I think I’m the only blue Ross on most of the social channels. So I live on I think you are Instagram. Those are the ones that primarily use it at Blue rest. Yeah, I think I’m Instagram it’s blue rest underscore coach.
Elijah Selby
Well, I’m gonna put this all in the in the podcast anyway. Yeah.
Blue
Ross just like the color. Yeah. By me.
Elijah Selby
A little like the color but rest is not like rest. It’s ru S S.
Blue
S is like, Sam, I found I have to say on the phone. Yeah. Your name rough.
Elijah Selby
Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I always have to say actually,
Blue
I don’t know when this will be released. But I you’ll probably be able to find it at any point in time. But I just for my 10th anniversary released 10 rules that I’ve broken in the coaching industry is rolling out starting next week. So
Elijah Selby
oh my gosh. Well, I mean, that’s a whole Podcast, episode two. Okay, I’ll have you back. Lou. That sounds amazing. Cool. Um, thank you for being here. It is always an honor and a pleasure. And I love everything about you. You’re amazing.
Blue
Thank you so much, Elijah, I adore you. Thank you so much for doing this podcast.
Elijah Selby
truly my pleasure.
Blue
Thanks for listening to a path of her own today. I’d love to connect. To be in the loop on upcoming events, tips and inspiration, please visit www dot blue russ.com And subscribe to my mailing list.